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From Cegep To Medical School - Which One, Assuming All Accept You.


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Let us say that you are a Cegepien applying to all 4 medical schools and they all accept you. Which would/did you choose and why?

Some students fear that without taking the premed programs at either McGill or UdeM that they would be at a disadvantage for medical school. On the other hand, going to either Sherby or Laval cuts off a year. Do Cegepiens who select either of the latter two suffer in their education or competency as a result?

Your comments would be most interesting to the coming applicants this cycle. Also, it would be interesting to hear from those who have received their bachelors degree in programs unrelated to health, and what they did when faced, for example, with acceptances from UdeM for 5 years or Laval/Sherbrooke for just 4 years.

 

Thank you.

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Personnellement, j’irai à Sherbrooke.

 

Et je ne crois pas que le fait de faire une « année préparatoire » soit si avantageux. Je crois simplement que ça permet aux étudiants d’atténuer le choc d’avoir une très grande charge de travail. Déjà, l’université c’est une coche au-dessus du cégep point de vue difficulté; alors on comprend que le doctorat en médecine ça peut être assez éprouvant. 

 

Bref, je crois que l’année préparatoire permet une adaptation plus relax. En ce qui concerne si c’est essentiel ou non; je crois que c’est très individuel et que ça dépend de tes capacités et de ce que tu recherches.

 

Cordialement,

Psy

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Personally I had the choice between Sherbrooke and UdeM and if I had to do it again I would still choose UdeM. But if I had the choice between the four universities, I would probably still choose UdeM from the comments I have received from numerous friends scattered across these universities.

 

Here are the reasons (again this is from comments I have received, the reality might be completly off and I am not saying one university is better than another):

McGill:

Sherbrooke:

  • 4 years is great, but 4 years also means less periods of ''externat'' than the 3 other universities
  • I had the chance to meet a couple of program directors and they identified most of their weakest students coming from Sherbrooke University (again this is just ''cases'' and ''hear-say'' , my own brother did his med school at Sherbrooke, had an awesome time and ended up in a very competitive residency program).

Laval:

  • One reason I would not got there, which probably a stupid reason, is that when I applied, they messed up my account (on Capsule) 3 times and dealing with their administration was a ridiculous experience which sent me a red flag about this university. However again, this is a personal and isolated experience.
  • I have 3 friends currently studying there and they said they kinda regret their choice. But this is as far as I know about this university. It might be a great one but I don't have enough info.

UdeM:

  • The premed, unlike Psy said, give you a very SOLID adaptation to the medical program, not that it is relax but when you start the first year, you already know a lot of concepts in anatomy, microbiology, biological sciences, psychology, which are all concepts that come back pretty often in your medical journey. I chose UdeM initially because of the premed program and I absolutely do not regret my choice.

 

However, I would say take the time to read all of these universities program descriptions, take the time to speak to people who go there (people who are actually in medical school and tried this particular program) and make your own idea out of it (pick the one that suits you best). They all have pros and cons (here I just listed cons but they obviously have a lot of pros as well). At the end of the day, no matter which one you pick; you'll be a doctor and how invested in medicine you are will decide if you become a great doctor or not! :)

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Selon les commentaires que j'ai eu de mes amies externes de l'udem; la prémed est useless. Oui ça te donne une base mais tu vas tout revoir en mieux et ce qui est superflu va être de toute manière coupé car la pratique médicale demande des connaissances fonctionnelles et non fondamentales des domaines qui sont couvert en prémed.

 

Vous avez deux cours de bénévolat... 

Un cours sur les déterminants de la santé (sans avoir fait le cours je peux probablement déjà te nommer les déterminants et te parler d'empowerment et de l'importance de la collaboration et de la compréhension du "communautaire" dans la pratique médicale)

Un cours de psychologie de 3 crédits... (J'ai fait 12 crédits spécialisés en psychodynamique et je me considères même pas encore compétent dans ce domaine).

C'est pas en voyant quelques mécanismes de défenses et un melting pot de théorie (Ainsworth/Freud/Skinner etc) qu'on détient une base solide en psy. Juste comprendre réellement la théorie du conditionnement opérant de skinner ça demanderait au moins 6 crédits juste sur ça.

 

Bref oui ça te prépare à la médecine mais je continue à croire que c'est totalement facultatif et que c'est beaucoup plus une année de transition qu'une année de "formation" médicale.

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C'est certain qu'avec une attitude comme cela c'est pas fait pour toi la prémed :P.

C'est vrai que tu vas tout revoir. En god-speed par exemple. Par exemple au pré-clinique tu as un bloc de locomoteur dans lequelle tu apprends l'anatomie + les pathologies reliées - en 6 semaines. En prémed tu as l'anatomie complète sur 2 sessions (24-26 semaines) avec quelques pathologies. Donc si tu as fais prémed, c'est certain que l'adaptation à ton bloc se fait mieux car certaines notion reviennent rapidement.

 

Pour les 2 cours de bénévolats, c'est pas du bénévolat random, c'est du bénévolat ciblé dans un contexte hospitalier ce qui est le premier contexte en milieu hospitalier pour certaines personnes. Moi j'étais en soins palliatifs pédiatrique. Je vais t'assurer que t'aime mieux apprendre ce milieu en faisant du bénévolat que ''on-the-spot'' pendant ton externat.

Le cours de psy dont tu fais référence est donné par certains des meilleurs psychiatres et chercheurs du réseau de santé de l'UdeM. On voit en effet assez rapidement certaines théorie, mais cela donne une base solide pour quelqu'un qui en a jamais fais. C'est certain que pour toi qui détient un bac en psycho, c'est probablement une perte de temps, mais il te serait crédité de toute façon.

Le cours sur les déterminants de la santé (Aspects sociaux de la santé) est un des cours les plus apprécié des étudiants - notamment parce qu'on a la chance de rencontrer (d'avoir comme 2 profs) un médecin qui travaille avec médecin sans frontière et un anthropologue médical qui passent beaucoup de temps à nous raconter des expériences personnelles et susciter plusieurs discussion en classe - tout cela sans se soucier d'avoir à étudier 300 heures pour une bonne note (les 3/4 des gens ont A+ dans ce cours car le but c'est vraiment de discuter et pas de rusher sa vie là-dessus).

Mais bon , my 2 cents. J'ai fais prémed et je le regrette pas. Tant pis pour ton amie externe si elle a pensé perdre son temps; elle aurait du aller à Sherbrooke.

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Je comprends ton point de vue, et je ne dis pas que c'est useless. Mon point de vue c'est que c'est facultatif et que ça dépend des gens. Je veux juste m'assurer que certaines personnes ne se diront pas que les formations en 4 ans sont moins complètes et forment des médecins moins compétents :)

 

Sur ce, passe une belle journée.

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Personnellement, je viens du Cégep et j'ai été accepté dans les quatre facultés de médecine québécoises. Après beaucoup de réflexion, j'ai décidé d'aller à l'UdeM. Voici les raisons en gros :

Mcgill :

La Med-p semble peu pertinente à mon avis. C'est une belle opportunité pour avoir de meilleures connaissances générales, mais je me sentais ailleurs dans mon apprentissage. En ce qui concerne le programme en tant que tel, Il y avait aussi trop de cours magistraux à mon avis. Pour certain c'est un point positif, mais moi je suis incapable d'écouter dans un amphithéâtre, donc ça ne me correspond pas.

Sherbrooke : Les bases fondamentales sont faibles. Effectivement que pour être médecin ce n'est pas nécessaire de le savoir. Mais personnellement, je considère essentiel de connaître les mécanismes sous-jacents aux pathologies et aux traitements pharmacologiques. Aussi, ils n'ont, pour ainsi dire, aucun cours d'anatomie. L'externat qui dure un an et demi à la place de deux ans était un gros problème pour moi aussi. Ça donne moins de stage au choix et une moins grande exposition clinique, ce qui peut faire une différence pour l'application à la résidence. Aussi, je n'aime pas vraiment la ville de Sherbrooke. 

Laval : On dit 4 ans, mais en réalité, c'est 5 ans ou 4 ans et demi pour les cégepiens. Peu le font en 4 ans. Ceux qui ont le bac ont 12 crédits à option de crédité, donc c'est plus facile, mais autrement apparemment que c'est assez intense en 4 ans pour quelqu'un qui vient du cégep. C'est aussi un programme très magistral. Ils n'ont pas beaucoup d'APP (aucun sauf en Neuro et un autre bloc de mémoire). Je n'aime pas vraiment la ville de Québec non plus. 

Montréal, pour moi, représentait le parfait équilibre entre clinique et fondamental. C'est vrai que c'est pas nécessair de savoir ce qu'est une zonula occludens pour être médecin. Mais un moment donné, un médecin ce n'est pas un technicien non plus. On a donc une année avec beaucoup de cours de science fondamentale (la pré-med) et ensuite 2 ans plus clinique. J'ai toujours beaucoup aimé la science fondamentale et c'est ce qui m'a attiré de la pré-med. Je ne le regrette vraiment pas, j'ai une base de connaissance qui m'est vraiment utile, particulièrement pour mon stage de recherche que j'ai fait cet été. Puisque je désire pratiquer à Montréal ou dans les environs, aller à L'UdeM est une excellente opportunité de faire du résautage à Montréal justement. 

Quant au faut que la pré-med est une année de transition entre le cégep et la médecine, je dois dire que je ne suis pas d'accord. Tous les gens qui ont fait leur pré-med m'ont dit que la pré-med avait été plus difficile que la première année de médecine. Ce n'est donc pas une transition du tout, c'est plutôt un énorme choc. Son utilité n'est donc pas d'améliorer l'adaptation. 

Honnêtement, quand on est rendu dans ces études là, une année de plus ou de moins c'est si peu significatif. Tout dépendant du cheminement, un médecin peut rester aux études pendant tellement longtemps...

Bref, je ne regrette pas mon choix. UdeMédecine youhou ! :)

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2 things in response to finalshowtime's first post:

 

1. McGill's probation should not impact your decision.... at all. It's only making things better. 

2. We get 18 months of preclinical and the rest is clinical. Plus we get early exposure to the clinic (as early as second week of classes) through the longitudinal family med course and possibly the physicianship course. I don't see how that's less than other schools. 

 

I can't comment on med-p because I haven't done it, but MED-P students in M1 seem to be lost about ¾ of the time. From what I hear, UdeM's prep year is very good.. but then again, don't expect your med-p to prepare you as much as an undergrad would. If you get into any med faculty then you're good enough to adjust. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • I had the chance to meet a couple of program directors and they identified most of their weakest students coming from Sherbrooke University (again this is just ''cases'' and ''hear-say'' , my own brother did his med school at Sherbrooke, had an awesome time and ended up in a very competitive residency program).

 

I don't know where that comes from as I heard the reverse way around in a few instances...

One should not base his decision on cases and hear-say.

If we want to get real stats, let's remember that UdeM and UdeS always battle the first 2 positions in Canada for MCCQE results (althought the difference is not statistically significant in between all the universities in Quebec lol)

I agree with most the of the other things that have been said.

All programs have their pros and cons, but whichever program you choose, remember that you will all become a doctor and will have as much a shot at a competitive specialty if you work hard enough.

The final decision is a personal one, and for me it boils down to :

- The city

- The general ambiance of the program and student life

- 4 vs 5 years

- BPL vs. traditionnal learning

- Your favorite color (Red? Blue? Green? Gold? A mix of two?)

 

Good luck everyone, and may the force be with you.

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- Your favorite color (Red? Blue? Green? Gold? A mix of two?)

 

THIS :D  :D  :D  I can't believe I forgot to point it out. This is the most important factor ! With the amount of blue I see everyday (even the teacher's ppts are blue most of the time) I wouldn't have survived my first year if I hadn't liked the colour in the first place  :P

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I did medical school in Sherbrooke straight from cegep and while it had its perks, if I had to do it again, I would choose McGill. I went on to complete residency in English Canada and there are many issues with the UdeS curriculum and other things I will discuss later on. 

 

McGill's probation is not a big deal. Our perception in the Western Canadian province where I did residency was that you start with an advantage as a McGill med student for CaRMS.

 

I can't comment on UdeM as I don't know much about their medical teaching system, or don't remember what I've been told about it.

 

Laval is in Quebec City, which is more conservative and homogeneous. I've had friends complaining about narrow-mindedness and bigotry there. I know of fellow colleagues completing medical school in 3, 4, or 5 years. Most choose 5 years from what I know.

 

Sherbrooke... man, I didn't like it. The FMSS is so isolated from the rest of the city, and it was such a hassle to live there. Public transit is atrocious. I lived in the residences and had a surgical specialty rotation during externat, and had to take a cab every day because the bus would start service too late for me to arrive to the CHUS Hôtel-Dieu on time. And then they have the gall to call themselves a student city. 

 

Also, it's only 4 years, and the fundamental sciences are so weak in Sherbrooke. You also have to take the length of clerkship into account - it doesn't leave you a lot of leeway if you make a mistake or discover that you like a new specialty late into it. 

 

When I started residency, I had to attend those students + residents teaching sessions, and realized how bad the commitment to teaching was in Sherbrooke. PBL during the two first years wasn't so bad, but wow, it was brutal for some people who came straight from cegep. Then, during clerkship, I remember a lot of us being extremely frustrated with our ARCs at the CHUS because students were seen as burdens by professors, and it was so obvious that they despised us for spoiling their day at the clinic. 

 

Here is a list of positive things in Sherbrooke:

 

- Parties!

- Clinical skills (we're REALLY good at physical examinations - when I started residency, I received consistently superior feedback for those).

- In my time, Sherbrooke was pretty much dog eat dog because students were younger and more attracted to competitive specialties. If you like competition, you will fare well here.

 

Sorry I am rambling. But there are things I would have liked to know when I applied back eleventy years ago.

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The FMSS is so isolated from the rest of the city, and it was such a hassle to live there. Public transit is atrocious. I lived in the residences and had a surgical specialty rotation during externat, and had to take a cab every day because the bus would start service too late for me to arrive to the CHUS Hôtel-Dieu on time. And then they have the gall to call themselves a student city.

Lol how did you manage to survive without a car? I'm sorry but coming from a small town before I moved for study, I just assumed everyone owns a car and I'm still amazed when I see people who don't in Sherbrooke (and also frustrated when I go to Montreal and try to find a place to park...).

Sherbrooke transportation works well in the center, on the main campus, and also when not on surgical rotation. It is also included in your school fees.

 

 

When I started residency, I had to attend those students + residents teaching sessions, and realized how bad the commitment to teaching was in Sherbrooke. PBL during the two first years wasn't so bad, but wow, it was brutal for some people who came straight from cegep. Then, during clerkship, I remember a lot of us being extremely frustrated with our ARCs at the CHUS because students were seen as burdens by professors, and it was so obvious that they despised us for spoiling their day at the clinic.

I do agree that the ARC sucks. But the good things is that they target med student learning and not only resident. Student + resident teaching sessions, at least where I'm doing residency, are of barely no use to med students. Seriously, would a question about how to do a pelvis osteotomy for developmental hip dysplasia ever come up on MCCQE? It's a good thing that Sherbrooke has teaching sessions specifically targeted at med students, even though some attendings don't take them seriously.

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Lol how did you manage to survive without a car? I'm sorry but coming from a small town before I moved for study, I just assumed everyone owns a car and I'm still amazed when I see people who don't in Sherbrooke (and also frustrated when I go to Montreal and try to find a place to park...).

Sherbrooke transportation works well in the center, on the main campus, and also when not on surgical rotation. It is also included in your school fees.

 

I do agree that the ARC sucks. But the good things is that they target med student learning and not only resident. Student + resident teaching sessions, at least where I'm doing residency, are of barely no use to med students. Seriously, would a question about how to do a pelvis osteotomy for developmental hip dysplasia ever come up on MCCQE? It's a good thing that Sherbrooke has teaching sessions specifically targeted at med students, even though some attendings don't take them seriously.

I am from Montreal. It wasn't a priority to learn how to drive when I was young.

 

As for the students and residents teaching sessions where I trained, they were very appreciated by all and done pretty well. Those were in addition to the focused students-only and residents-only teaching sessions we would respectively get.

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