Rural Suitability

[arcturus]

Does anyone know anything about the rural suitability section? How it's scored, what certain ties or activities are worth, etc. Is a grandparent living rural worth more than a family friend? Do you get more points for having more relatives in different places? How does it factor into NAQ? Does anything really make up for not growing up in a rural town? How can you go about demonstrating/proving interest in rural medicine, especially if you grew up in the city?

[JohnGrisham]

Does anyone know anything about the rural suitability section? How it's scored, what certain ties or activities are worth, etc. Is a grandparent living rural worth more than a family friend? Do you get more points for having more relatives in different places? How does it factor into NAQ? Does anything really make up for not growing up in a rural town? How can you go about demonstrating/proving interest in rural medicine, especially if you grew up in the city?

Get a job in said rural communities for the summer. Go actually get involved in those communities.

[_ _]

I would say that family friends and grandparents living rural are both very weak rural criteria. You would need to actually spend time in a rural area  yourself

[veggiepizza]

For those of you who have completed the rural suitability section - were any of your referees from this section contacted? Or do they only contact referees from the other section?

[veggiepizza]

Does anyone know anything about the rural suitability section? How it's scored, what certain ties or activities are worth, etc. Is a grandparent living rural worth more than a family friend? Do you get more points for having more relatives in different places? How does it factor into NAQ? Does anything really make up for not growing up in a rural town? How can you go about demonstrating/proving interest in rural medicine, especially if you grew up in the city?

[veggiepizza]

.

[arcturus]

Get a job in said rural communities for the summer. Go actually get involved in those communities.

Ya I've thought of this and I'm gonna look into it as second semester winds down, but it seems tough to find a job, at least looking at job postings. Certainly nothing in my field.

[dk355]

Does anyone know anything about the rural suitability section? How it's scored, what certain ties or activities are worth, etc. Is a grandparent living rural worth more than a family friend? Do you get more points for having more relatives in different places? How does it factor into NAQ? Does anything really make up for not growing up in a rural town? How can you go about demonstrating/proving interest in rural medicine, especially if you grew up in the city?

 

The whole point of selecting students with rural ties is to address the shortage of doctors in rural areas. So I think the students with strong ties would be those who grew up there and have the entire family CURRENTLY living there.

[Torntoiletpaper]

The whole point of selecting students with rural ties is to address the shortage of doctors in rural areas. So I think the students with strong ties would be those who grew up there and have the entire family CURRENTLY living there.

 

I agree. There is no point in applying for the rural if you're not interested in it (ie. committed long-term to rural communities). There are lots of reasons why. If you are interested in being a committed rural doctor then great! We need some good doctors in rural communities.  

 

If you're thinking that applying for rural might boost your chances of getting in (not accusing you of anything by the way... just saying), I'm willing to bet that UBC has thought of that as well. I doubt it would affect your application or increase your odds of getting into medical school. 

[46dr]

Ya I've thought of this and I'm gonna look into it as second semester winds down, but it seems tough to find a job, at least looking at job postings. Certainly nothing in my field.

 

What field are you in? There's certain small towns that have jobs in certain areas that you might not know of. Also, small towns = not a lot of variety (so really, don't expect to get a full time job in your preferred position). If you're really committed to rural experience you might have to make a sacrifice and take a leave to go work a seasonal position or possibly work some channels to find a way into a research opportunity (since shadowing is not commonly accepted). Just trying to come up with some options for you to get a good rural reference. 

[_ _]

Ya I've thought of this and I'm gonna look into it as second semester winds down, but it seems tough to find a job, at least looking at job postings. Certainly nothing in my field.

And that is exactly why they want people who have actually lived in rural areas, because only then do you understand the limitations and struggles of living in an isolated community.

[arcturus]

And that is exactly why they want people who have actually lived in rural areas, because only then do you understand the limitations and struggles of living in an isolated community.

There probably aren't enough qualified applicants who grew up rural though, they'll almost definitely have to take people who haven't lived in a rural community.

[arcturus]

I agree. There is no point in applying for the rural if you're not interested in it (ie. committed long-term to rural communities). There are lots of reasons why. If you are interested in being a committed rural doctor then great! We need some good doctors in rural communities.  

 

If you're thinking that applying for rural might boost your chances of getting in (not accusing you of anything by the way... just saying), I'm willing to bet that UBC has thought of that as well. I doubt it would affect your application or increase your odds of getting into medical school. 

I'm fully committed to being a rural doctor. Most of my family is in Vancouver so I imagine I'll be back and forth frequently, but my goal is be an itinerant doctor, working in lots of small communities all across BC and the territories, probably 10 months out of the year (vacation and visit the family the rest, dat work/life balance). Later in my career I might find a town I really like and work their permanently. 

 

Yes though, I do think being interested in rural med increases your chances of getting in. It's my understanding that the NMP seats only go to people who expressed interest, so you're competing against a significantly smaller pool, and most people with really good stats will probably go VMP or IMP. NMP is my top choice anywhere, but UBC doesn't seem to give 2 shits about the MCAT, so I'll probably end up at Sask or Manitoba med, or an American school. (100th%ile MCAT and 3.7-3.8 GPA, mediocre ECs)

[arcturus]

What field are you in? There's certain small towns that have jobs in certain areas that you might not know of. Also, small towns = not a lot of variety (so really, don't expect to get a full time job in your preferred position). If you're really committed to rural experience you might have to make a sacrifice and take a leave to go work a seasonal position or possibly work some channels to find a way into a research opportunity (since shadowing is not commonly accepted). Just trying to come up with some options for you to get a good rural reference. 

Thanks for the suggestions.

[amichel]

I'm fully committed to being a rural doctor. Most of my family is in Vancouver so I imagine I'll be back and forth frequently, but my goal is be an itinerant doctor, working in lots of small communities all across BC and the territories, probably 10 months out of the year (vacation and visit the family the rest, dat work/life balance). Later in my career I might find a town I really like and work their permanently.

 

Yes though, I do think being interested in rural med increases your chances of getting in. It's my understanding that the NMP seats only go to people who expressed interest, so you're competing against a significantly smaller pool, and most people with really good stats will probably go VMP or IMP. NMP is my top choice anywhere, but UBC doesn't seem to give 2 shits about the MCAT, so I'll probably end up at Sask or Manitoba med, or an American school. (100th%ile MCAT and 3.7-3.8 GPA, mediocre ECs)

I don't know if it was you I discussed this with or someone else, but I don't think you are competing in another pool. Don't forget you have to get admitted first (along side the whole applicant pool) before they start assigning sites. I think the only advantage would be if all the other sites were full, and there were spots left at NMP, they would skip someone who didn't fill out the rural suitability section.

 

At least that's my interpretation of how UBC has explained it. Could be wrong.

[46dr]

^ This is my understanding as well. 

 

Can I ask why you're wanting to work rurally? Or how you know you'll like it? 

[JohnGrisham]

I don't know if it was you I discussed this with or someone else, but I don't think you are competing in another pool. Don't forget you have to get admitted first (along side the whole applicant pool) before they start assigning sites. I think the only advantage would be if all the other sites were full, and there were spots left at NMP, they would skip someone who didn't fill out the rural suitability section.

 

At least that's my interpretation of how UBC has explained it. Could be wrong.

This is correct.

 

You have to be first admissible and then, they run through your preference ranking and put you where there is a spot.

 

 

Also, its always interesting when people say they want to work rural or have some strong desire - yet have never even lived rural for extended periods of time(not saying it applies to you OP, but it doesn't seem you indicated otherwise).

 

Facts and experience speak louder than intentions.

 

[arcturus]

This is correct.

 

You have to be first admissible and then, they run through your preference ranking and put you where there is a spot.

 

 

Also, its always interesting when people say they want to work rural or have some strong desire - yet have never even lived rural for extended periods of time(not saying it applies to you OP, but it doesn't seem you indicated otherwise).

 

Facts and experience speak louder than intentions.

 

That's like asking why you wanna practice medicine when you've never practiced medicine before. I've heard from lots of people that life in the territories can be an amazing adventure. My dad and uncle were both miners and loggers in the territories and northern BC in their youth. I've also heard from doctors who've done rural work that it's the most rewarding and satisfying, with a much broader spectrum of practice. I was initially inspired by a doctor who spoke at a premed meeting about his time doing rural/emergency medicine. I've never lived rurally for extended periods, but I've been to many towns across BC, and spent lots of time at my cabin every summer (rural area, unfinished, no running water, though we do have electricity), and have lots of related hobbies and interests. I hate being attached to technology and enjoy living by the sun. I have pooped in the woods <- therefore a level 10 woodsman haha. Anyway, I'm as certain as you can be without having practiced rural medicine yet, and I better stop selling you guys on it or I'll have double the rural applicant pool to compete with  .

[arcturus]

I don't know if it was you I discussed this with or someone else, but I don't think you are competing in another pool. Don't forget you have to get admitted first (along side the whole applicant pool) before they start assigning sites. I think the only advantage would be if all the other sites were full, and there were spots left at NMP, they would skip someone who didn't fill out the rural suitability section.

 

At least that's my interpretation of how UBC has explained it. Could be wrong.

Yes I was discussing this with you in another thread and it amounts to the same thing. If all the top applicants don't choose NMP, and if they DO pass over people for NMP seats who expressed no interest, then I'm essentially competing for the NMP seats only with people who did express interest. It's possible that's not true though, maybe lots of top people want the NMP seats, and/or maybe they don't pass over you. I don't know.

[46dr]

Yes I was discussing this with you in another thread and it amounts to the same thing. If all the top applicants don't choose NMP, and if they DO pass over people for NMP seats who expressed no interest, then I'm essentially competing for the NMP seats only with people who did express interest. It's possible that's not true though, maybe lots of top people want the NMP seats, and/or maybe they don't pass over you. I don't know.

 

But you're competing for the NMP spots AFTER you've already been accepted, essentially. There's only a few seats, I think it's probably safest to take the stance that it makes no difference on acceptability if you've expressed interest in the NMP. 

 

Glad to hear you have experience in rural areas, they're hugely underserved. 

[JohnGrisham]

That's like asking why you wanna practice medicine when you've never practiced medicine before. I've heard from lots of people that life in the territories can be an amazing adventure. My dad and uncle were both miners and loggers in the territories and northern BC in their youth. I've also heard from doctors who've done rural work that it's the most rewarding and satisfying, with a much broader spectrum of practice. I was initially inspired by a doctor who spoke at a premed meeting about his time doing rural/emergency medicine. I've never lived rurally for extended periods, but I've been to many towns across BC, and spent lots of time at my cabin every summer (rural area, unfinished, no running water, though we do have electricity), and have lots of related hobbies and interests. I hate being attached to technology and enjoy living by the sun. I have pooped in the woods <- therefore a level 10 woodsman haha. Anyway, I'm as certain as you can be without having practiced rural medicine yet, and I better stop selling you guys on it or I'll have double the rural applicant pool to compete with  .

Well like you have outlined, you seem to already have rural experience through various means - this was the whole point, you have in some ways already experienced it in some facets.  So go forward and be content with that or further enhance it through whatever means you have.

[arcturus]

But you're competing for the NMP spots AFTER you've already been accepted, essentially. There's only a few seats, I think it's probably safest to take the stance that it makes no difference on acceptability if you've expressed interest in the NMP. 

 

Glad to hear you have experience in rural areas, they're hugely underserved. 

No not really. First, there's 32 NMP seats and up to 10 rural SMP seats, so 42 rural spots total. Subtract from 288 total and you have 246 regular spots. So let's say hypothetically that the top 300 people didn't express interest in NMP, and I'm ranked 342. I wouldn't be accepted to VFMP even from waitlist, but they skip over the next 54 people and accept the top 42 rural applicants, including me, and if people drop out of VFMP or IMP, they select from those 54 they skipped over and waitlisted. If they don't accept people at NMP who didn't express interest, then you are essentially in a different pool for those seats. Granted, this is conjecture. I have no idea what percentage of people are interested/willing to go NMP, and I don't know if they rule you out for saying you have no interest, that's just what I've read here in some threads.

[JohnGrisham]

No not really. First, there's 32 NMP seats and up to 10 rural SMP seats, so 42 rural spots total. Subtract from 288 total and you have 246 regular spots. So let's say hypothetically that the top 300 people didn't express interest in NMP, and I'm ranked 342. I wouldn't be accepted to VFMP even from waitlist, but they skip over the next 54 people and accept the top 42 rural applicants, including me, and if people drop out of VFMP or IMP, they select from those 54 they skipped over and waitlisted. If they don't accept people at NMP who didn't express interest, then you are essentially in a different pool for those seats. Granted, this is conjecture. I have no idea what percentage of people are interested/willing to go NMP, and I don't know if they rule you out for saying you have no interest, that's just what I've read here in some threads.

It's funny that you assume the top 300 people would have no interest in NMP. 

 

I can gaurantee you that almost all(save for 1-2 people) of the current NMP cohort all had NMP as their 1st choice - and contrary to popular misconception, many of them had overall applicants far higher up than the 300+ mark.  

 

So the realistic situations would be that they would be that most of the NMP(and other distributed sites like SMP and IMP) would go to people who are in fact higher up in the Global list, as 1st preference picks.

 

That is not to say there aren't always a few people who end up at the distributed sites as 2nd choices - even amongst the sites (i.e. wanting IMP but ending up at SMP), but to think that suddenly the NMP seats are all going to people so far down on the global list, is a bit pompous.

 

Theoretically your rational could be sound, in that if many people didn't fill out the Rural Suitability Section(thus making them illegible to apply to those seats), someone like you who would potentially be so far down the global list - could fill that spot if you did fill it out(and were of course deemed even suitable). Very very unlikely scenario though, hence why for practical purposes it is assumed that it doesn't make much difference.

 

 

As it stands if you think your Rural profile would make you eligible for those seats - so do MANY of the other applicants applying(Beautiful outdoors of BC and all), and thus that even muddles it more, as now those people higher up on the global rank, also are likely to have put down Rural suitability also, and would be considered over the hypothetical someone who is lower on the list with the same Rural suitability checked off.

 

 

All of this is conjecture yes, but it is a moot point anyways - as if the process is working as it should, most of the people filling the rural seats are applicants who have very strong rural ties through either living or working in rural communities.  So that statistically small chance of someone who just happened to fill out the Rural suitability section with a low overall global rank, taking a spot and passing up people with higher overall global ranks-but no rural suitability filled - is generally not realized in reality.

[46dr]

...you assume the top 300 people would have no interest in NMP. 

 

I think this is what I mean. Yes, mathematically it could work out that someone down the list could get accepted on Arcturus's logic. 

 

Is it going to happen? Extremely unlikely. But hey, who knows right?

[arcturus]

It's funny that you assume the top 300 people would have no interest in NMP. 

 

I can gaurantee you that almost all(save for 1-2 people) of the current NMP cohort all had NMP as their 1st choice - and contrary to popular misconception, many of them had overall applicants far higher up than the 300+ mark.  

 

So the realistic situations would be that they would be that most of the NMP(and other distributed sites like SMP and IMP) would go to people who are in fact higher up in the Global list, as 1st preference picks.

 

That is not to say there aren't always a few people who end up at the distributed sites as 2nd choices - even amongst the sites (i.e. wanting IMP but ending up at SMP), but to think that suddenly the NMP seats are all going to people so far down on the global list, is a bit pompous.

 

 

As it stands if you think your Rural profile would make you eligible for those seats - so do MANY of the other applicants applying(Beautiful outdoors of BC and all), and thus that even muddles it more, as now those people higher up on the global rank, also are likely to have put down Rural suitability also, and would be considered over the hypothetical someone who is lower on the list with the same Rural suitability checked off.

It's not pompous at all. "imperious, self-important"... weak CARS eh? I exaggerated the numbers to make a point, and I would be arrogant/pompous if I assigned myself a global rank in the top 288, rather than well off of the waitlist... "and were of course deemed even suitable" You sound very pompous yourself though, as if people who rank 350/2300 on the global list aren't suitable for med?

 

Yes, I suspect that all of the NMP students had NMP as first choice as well, that fits with my reasoning. The point being, they go down the list till they find people who have NMP as first choice. It's unreasonable to think they would have to skip 54 people of course, I just used it to reach a round 300, but it's definitely reasonable to assume most people do not choose NMP as top pick, and a lot of people express no interest. The few people who I know that applied did not fill out this section. I'm sure the vast majority of premeds come from cities and are not interested in living rurally. It's a simple truth about most people in general. There's more opportunities to find a mate, more educational opportunities for you and your kids, etc. If you're a star applicant, you probably want to specialize. If you want to be a cardiologist or a neurosurgeon, then you probably can't practice rurally. You work at a high volume hospital where your skills are fully utilized. You'd want to go VFMP so you can do rotations with more specialists.

 

I haven't seen stats on this, but I assume there is a very, very small number of qualified candidates who come from rural areas. There's many convoluted reasons for this, but the easiest example is a lack of universities in small towns. Young people have to jump an initial hurdle of moving to a city to even begin their education -> increased financial constraints, decreased support network. This is why they have seats with lower requirements for students who are from rural areas. Not that the requirements are crazy-low, but I'm positive there are people getting in to NMP who would not normally rank in the top 288. That's the point of rural seats. They wouldn't need them if interested people in the top 288 were filling them and staying there.