More Casper Transparency?

[positivetension]

Let me start by saying that I did not get an interview at McMaster this year. Would I be making this thread if I did? Maybe not, but I have definitely been thinking about the arbitrariness of CASPer for a while.

 

I agree that it is important to look beyond MCAT and GPA when admitting people. I would even argue that these intangibles are more important than MCAT and GPA, but I don't think that CASPer is the way to do it. For me personally, my cGPA was a bit on the low side, but I had a good CARS score (130) and a 1% bonus for having a master's degree: essentially this meant that my interview was entirely dependent on CASPer performance since the other aspects roughly evened out.

 

My issue with CASPer is that it is not so much selecting "professional attributes" as it claims, but moreso if the specific rater thinks the same way as the applicant, or even just "likes" the applicant based on the answer. I know that this is counterbalanced to some extent by the inclusion of a different rater for each section, but ultimately, you CANNOT tell what kind of person someone is by their answer to one or two questions. This is all that each rater sees: their answers for one section. It may be that something about Applicant A's answer to section 2 really turned off Rater B, but if Rater B read their other sections they would change their mind and actually rate them quite highly. It seems very much based on luck: even if your answers are great and would be seen so by most raters, you might get a really unfavourable alignment of raters and sections. Finally, from my understanding, many of the raters are students themselves who barely have a greater understanding of what it means to practice medicine than the applicants, and are even more subject to their biases.

 

Interested in hearing opinions on this!

[mickymak]

My issue with CASPer is that it is not so much selecting "professional attributes" as it claims, but moreso if the specific rater thinks the same way as the applicant, or even just "likes" the applicant based on the answer

 

Doesn't this issue stand with any sort of non-numerical means of assessment? Essays and ABS are also subjective and are influenced by whether the rater "likes" the applicant

 

I know that this is counterbalanced to some extent by the inclusion of a different rater for each section, but ultimately, you CANNOT tell what kind of person someone is by their answer to one or two questions. This is all that each rater sees: their answers for one section. It may be that something about Applicant A's answer to section 2 really turned off Rater B, but if Rater B read their other sections they would change their mind and actually rate them quite highly

 

I'm pretty sure multiple raters rate each section for each applicant

 

It seems very much based on luck: even if your answers are great and would be seen so by most raters, you might get a really unfavourable alignment of raters and sections

 

What if the people reading your ABS or essays are not in favorable alignment with you? Same issue stands

 

Finally, from my understanding, many of the raters are students themselves who barely have a greater understanding of what it means to practice medicine than the applicants, and are even more subject to their biases.

 

The majority of questions on the CASPer are not directly related to medicine, so I don't think its a matter of needing to have a great understanding of practicing medicine. Doctors have different views on medical issues and practicing medicine too, and obviously differ amongst themselves with their opinions. Doesn't this subject the marking of doctors to bias as well?

[lolelol]

I think casper's more about your thought process, even if the rater disagrees with you they shouldn't give you a low score just because they don't agree with you as long as you've adequately justified your position. There's also a different rater for each question you answer to make it more objective. 

[Bambi]

CASPer has been tried, tested and proven. There is an understandable bias on your part. Excellent candidates are selected each cycle. And excellent candidates are rejected each year due to the number of seats. Each school has their own formula in making their selections, therefore, it is a great advantage to apply broadly. And yes, lady luck plays a role in the process too - just as it does in all aspects of life. Best of luck in your applications next  cycle. 

[rmorelan]

side note - I thought they dropped the 1% masters and 4% phd bonuses this year?

[wongr]

side note - I thought they dropped the 1% masters and 4% phd bonuses this year?

 

it's still listed on their website.

[wongr]

I think casper's more about your thought process, even if the rater disagrees with you they shouldn't give you a low score just because they don't agree with you as long as you've adequately justified your position. There's also a different rater for each question you answer to make it more objective. 

 

I completely agree!!! It's not merely about whether the rater agrees or disagrees but more about showing them your thought process.  I studied for CASPer with a good friend who happened to have a lot more resource$$$ than me and it was clear that had they not gotten the professional help for CASPer (and me piggybacking off them), with our GPA and MCAT scores, neither of us would have received interview invites !!!!!!

 

Personally, I despise CASPer and I'm hoping I never have to see that test again.  The test offers a clear advantage for those who are fast typers !!!

[Artier]

side note - I thought they dropped the 1% masters and 4% phd bonuses this year?

It was dropped for some time and then re-added in the summer.

[rmorelan]

It was dropped for some time and then re-added in the summer.

 

ahh good to know - it is back ha That was a quick flip.

[rmorelan]

CASPer has been tried, tested and proven. There is an understandable bias on your part. Excellent candidates are selected each cycle. And excellent candidates are rejected each year due to the number of seats. Each school has their own formula in making their selections, therefore, it is a great advantage to apply broadly. And yes, lady luck plays a role in the process too - just as it does in all aspects of life. Best of luck in your applications next  cycle. 

 

I will say as far as subjective processes go it is one of the most researched ones out there. It has actual published work related to it.

 

the subjectivity never ends and only gets more important - my fellowship applications coming up are going to be entirely 100% subjective I am sure. There is going to be nothing objective to pin on there.

[amichel]

Seems there is one of these threads every year. One thing that people seem to miss - the Casper is a written MMI, essentially. If someone isn't successful on Casper, it's unlikely they would have been successful in the MMI.

 

Are there people who don't do well on Casper but excel on the MMI? Probably, but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

Also, you don't need to take expensive prep courses to do well on Casper, or the MMI. In most cases, they have no more inside knowledge than you do. You know what does help? Learning to write well (it's a life skill, an important one). How? Read lots. Take an English/writing course or two.

 

As for fast typing, practice, for goodness sake. Excuse my bluntness, but I will never understand why people will spend countless hours/money prepping to answer questions, but not a couple hours on a free typing website.

[YorkMD]

I feel like the CASPer is doing exactly what they set out to do: test your gut responses and quick thinking in all sorts of moral situations. While I really don't like the short amount of time they give you for each question set and you always feel like you left out something (or at least I did), it's a good method of figuring out the depth of thinking someone can demonstrate on the spot. There are no wrong answers for CASPer really, it's all about your reasoning behind your answers and how well you communicate your thoughts and positions.

 

Things I'm sure they look for in answers are things like did you consider multiple sides to an issue, the factors and parties involved, understanding of opposing views, professionalism etc. When you start to think of the questions like this it becomes a little more clear that you can defend any answer you want as long as you have some reasoning to back it up (and communicate this in your answer). 

 

No test is perfect but as someone mentioned, they've done a lot of research into this and just how Mac pioneered the MMI and now (mostly) everyone uses it, the CASPer is slowly proliferating into other schools' admissions as well. The test is not as arbitrary as you might think if they continue to use it as a strong selector. On the bright side, at least you know what to expect if you come across it again in the future, right?

[OntarioHopefully]

I think it would be nice for our CASPer score/percentile to at least be disclosed to us.. 

[Jess85]

Seems there is one of these threads every year. One thing that people seem to miss - the Casper is a written MMI, essentially. If someone isn't successful on Casper, it's unlikely they would have been successful in the MMI.

 

Are there people who don't do well on Casper but excel on the MMI? Probably, but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

Also, you don't need to take expensive prep courses to do well on Casper, or the MMI. In most cases, they have no more inside knowledge than you do. You know what does help? Learning to write well (it's a life skill, an important one). How? Read lots. Take an English/writing course or two.

 

As for fast typing, practice, for goodness sake. Excuse my bluntness, but I will never understand why people will spend countless hours/money prepping to answer questions, but not a couple hours on a free typing website.

 

Seems there is one of these threads every year. One thing that people seem to miss - the Casper is a written MMI, essentially. If someone isn't successful on Casper, it's unlikely they would have been successful in the MMI.

 

Are there people who don't do well on Casper but excel on the MMI? Probably, but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

Also, you don't need to take expensive prep courses to do well on Casper, or the MMI. In most cases, they have no more inside knowledge than you do. You know what does help? Learning to write well (it's a life skill, an important one). How? Read lots. Take an English/writing course or two.

 

As for fast typing, practice, for goodness sake. Excuse my bluntness, but I will never understand why people will spend countless hours/money prepping to answer questions, but not a couple hours on a free typing website.

 

Have you done the test?  I'm an english minor and a reapplicant and I can tell you that writing was not my issue last year.  Most people, including myself (previously) are of the mindset that prepping for casper is not beneficial and although this is FALSE, this is exactly what the test creators want you to believe.  Having been rejected post casper last year without an interview, I decided to take things into my own hands this year and so far so good.  My problem with casper was partially related to my typing speed so I improved on that significantly.  However, I've now learned that my answers were holding me back and without professional help, I wouldn't have received an interview.  You should always do your research before paying for help, but in my case, I clearly benefited from working with people who knew the ins and outs of this test.  

 

To the OP, I was in the same position last year.  Don't lose hope!

[sykern]

I truly feel as though those who wrote the Casper Oct 29 (the day of the system crash) had a glitch or marking in something. I say this as I've seen quite a few anomalies in statistics for interview invites. I know it's the internet and to take everything at face value, but I've peered through previous years' stats and none had similar ones. I also felt as though I did quite well on the CASPER (and wrote on Oct 29) - I did several practice tests and left no spaces blank, I knew the adequate means of addressing ethical issues and I had substantial answers (fast typer). I know my GPA & MCAT wasn't ideal but I saw those with lower stats who got an interview. GAH. 

 

Then again, I've been told by psychiatrists / med students I work with that mac is quite the "crap shoot" when it comes to admissions. Anyway, I digress. Just my perception :3. 

[Jess85]

I truly feel as though those who wrote the Casper Oct 29 (the day of the system crash) had a glitch or marking in something. I say this as I've seen quite a few anomalies in statistics for interview invites. I know it's the internet and to take everything at face value, but I've peered through previous years' stats and none had similar ones. I also felt as though I did quite well on the CASPER (and wrote on Oct 29) - I did several practice tests and left no spaces blank, I knew the adequate means of addressing ethical issues and I had substantial answers (fast typer). I know my GPA & MCAT wasn't ideal but I saw those with lower stats who got an interview. GAH. 

 

Then again, I've been told by psychiatrists / med students I work with that mac is quite the "crap shoot" when it comes to admissions. Anyway, I digress. Just my perception :3. 

 

Sorry to hear about Mac this year.  I was in the same position last year.  Being an english minor, I thought my casper answers were fairly strong and thought that I had done well on the actual exam.  I asked friends, colleagues, current med students (from Mac) etc for advice last year and everyone seem to tell me I was on the right track.  However, I was rejected without an interview.  It wasn't until this year that I learned my answers though they sounded nice, were actually CRAP.  I was basically chewed out (in a nice way) for 5 weeks for my casper answers even though, I thought were "good" answers at the time.  Sure it was a hit on my ego but in the end, I'm glad it happened to me because I NOW HAVE AN INTERVIEW AT MAC !!!!!!!!!!!  Best of Luck with your remaining applications.

[amichel]

Have you done the test? I'm an english minor and a reapplicant and I can tell you that writing was not my issue last year. Most people, including myself (previously) are of the mindset that prepping for casper is not beneficial and although this is FALSE, this is exactly what the test creators want you to believe. Having been rejected post casper last year without an interview, I decided to take things into my own hands this year and so far so good. My problem with casper was partially related to my typing speed so I improved on that significantly. However, I've now learned that my answers were holding me back and without professional help, I wouldn't have received an interview. You should always do your research before paying for help, but in my case, I clearly benefited from working with people who knew the ins and outs of this test.

 

To the OP, I was in the same position last year. Don't lose hope!

Yes I wrote the test. And got in as an OOP. Why would I comment otherwise?

 

Why do you think that "professional help" knows the ins and outs of the test? And how do you know which factor resulted in your improvement?

[a7x]

Sorry to hear about Mac this year.  I was in the same position last year.  Being an english minor, I thought my casper answers were fairly strong and thought that I had done well on the actual exam.  I asked friends, colleagues, current med students (from Mac) etc for advice last year and everyone seem to tell me I was on the right track.  However, I was rejected without an interview.  It wasn't until this year that I learned my answers though they sounded nice, were actually CRAP.  I was basically chewed out (in a nice way) for 5 weeks for my casper answers even though, I thought were "good" answers at the time.  Sure it was a hit on my ego but in the end, I'm glad it happened to me because I NOW HAVE AN INTERVIEW AT MAC !!!!!!!!!!!  Best of Luck with your remaining applications.

 

You are correct, content trumps style, but you dont need to pay $$$ to know that TBH.

[sdj78we9jtf2o3mgfvj298j]

I'm a bit upset that I didn't get an interview either, especially since my stats were relatively high. I don't think the bias is quite as high as you say, given that there are 12 raters, but I just wish the same casper mark didn't influence my chances at both Mac and Ottawa. If I said one bad thing then that ruins my chances at two schools!

[s2MD]

I truly feel as though those who wrote the Casper Oct 29 (the day of the system crash) had a glitch or marking in something. I say this as I've seen quite a few anomalies in statistics for interview invites. I know it's the internet and to take everything at face value, but I've peered through previous years' stats and none had similar ones. I also felt as though I did quite well on the CASPER (and wrote on Oct 29) - I did several practice tests and left no spaces blank, I knew the adequate means of addressing ethical issues and I had substantial answers (fast typer). I know my GPA & MCAT wasn't ideal but I saw those with lower stats who got an interview. GAH. 

 

Then again, I've been told by psychiatrists / med students I work with that mac is quite the "crap shoot" when it comes to admissions. Anyway, I digress. Just my perception :3. 

 

I also wrote Casper on the 29th and my test crashed on the 7th section !!!! Afterwards, I was given the option to use the stations I had completed, or login and finish the remaining stations within a few hours or reschedule.  After discussing it with my advisor, friends and family, I decide to rewrite in November and didn't run into any problems. 

[Jess85]

Yes I wrote the test. And got in as an OOP. Why would I comment otherwise?

 

Why do you think that "professional help" knows the ins and outs of the test? And how do you know which factor resulted in your improvement?

 

Because that "professional help" used to be involved in the creation of actual Casper test questions.  

[Jess85]

You are correct. If your answers had no actual content, then yes they suck regardless of how well written they are. Anyone could have told you this and saved you $$$.

 

But the reality is no one did and had I not spent the $$$, I'd have wasted another year of my life and time.  I'm fine with spending the $$$ because it was clearly well spent! 

[Edict]

I was able to mark CASPer this year, and this is just my own bias but I did feel like I could distinguish between what I thought were better answers and what I thought were less than good answers.

 

CASPer is looking for your thought process, one thing I recommend is that you actually list out your thought process in your answers rather than come to a quick conclusion. McMaster is also looking for people who would work well in groups, people who are open minded and reasonable and they do this through the MMI and CASPer. One thing I've noticed in my tutorial groups is that Mac students are remarkably good at working in groups. Most generally elicit everyone else's opinions and are careful when making decisions which shows thought. 

 

Remember it is not just medical students marking, it is also the general public.

[Organomegaly]

 

 

 

Because that "professional help" used to be involved in the creation of actual Casper test questions.  

 

there's nothing special about the casper questions

 

they are very basic questions. you can find hundreds of similar ones online

[MacMed2018]

there's nothing special about the casper questions

 

they are very basic questions. you can find hundreds of similar ones online

This is my opinion but when I was preparing for Casper (seems like ages ago now), I definitely didn't find hundreds of casper like questions for free online. Maybe things have changed since then?