Removal Of Science Pre-Requesites For Ubcmed

[ChemicalKid94]

"Faculty of Medicine – MD Admissions Requirements Revisions

 

The Committee has reviewed and recommends to Senate for approval the proposed changes to the admission requirements for the Doctor of Medicine Program. In order to enhance diversity within the program and remove barriers to the study of Medicine, Science prerequisites have been removed and will instead be strongly recommended. Removal of the Science pre-requisites will allow applicants from non-traditional backgrounds the opportunity to study Medicine. These students tend to choose primary care, including family care, which is currently underserved in the community. The only strict requirement will be 6 credits of English. Motion: That Senate approve the changes to the admission requirements for the Doctor of Medicine Program, effective for the 2016 Winter Session and thereafter."

 

http://senate.ubc.ca/sites/senate.ubc.ca/files/downloads/20160120%20Vancouver%20Senate%20Materials.pdf

 

#Lit

[Neurophilic]

I still don't see the reason why one needs to have 6 English credits considering most, if not all, applicants have English as a first language or have a good grasp of it. One could argue that having a good grasp of the English language is required to achieve grades which are competitive for Canadian medical schools. Most Canadian Universities don't require the credits and and yet they still manage to produce very competent doctors. 

[indefatigable]

One implications is  that I think UBC will see a large increase in the number of applications - the science pre-reqs were pretty heavy.  Although the policy is clearly directed at a non-traditional type of student, I think there'll be a increase across all student types, especially since mcat doesn't seem to be that heavily weighed.  So  avg GPA will probably increase a bit - the biochems in particular weren't generally considered to be the easiest classes.  

[a7x]

One implications is  that I think UBC will see a large increase in the number of applications - the science pre-reqs were pretty heavy.  Although the policy is clearly directed at a non-traditional type of student, I think there'll be a increase across all student types, especially since mcat doesn't seem to be that heavily weighed.  So  avg GPA will probably increase a bit - the biochems in particular weren't generally considered to be the easiest classes.  

Personally, I think its the English requirement that keeps the application numbers down, there would easily be another 500 OOP applicants without it since English is not required in Ontario.

[indefatigable]

Personally, I think its the English requirement that keeps the application numbers down, there would easily be another 500 OOP applicants without it since English is not required in Ontario.

 

I remember talking to a non-traditional BC resident (social science background) who was reluctant to go through the two orgos and two biochems.  UofT has a humanities requirements - first year English could probably be taken if an interview invite is received (or at least half of it).  

[Dr. Egg]

Is anyone aware if the removal of science pre-requsites pertains to students in this applications cycle? For example, I am interviewing at UBC in a few weeks; if I am granted admission, will I still be required to have completed all of the science pre-requisites?

[JohnGrisham]

Is anyone aware if the removal of science pre-requsites pertains to students in this applications cycle? For example, I am interviewing at UBC in a few weeks; if I am granted admission, will I still be required to have completed all of the science pre-requisites?

This does not affect the current cycle - and is clearly outlined on the UBC admissions website.

[Neurophiliac]

I look at this as a positive step forward for UBC Medicine. I think they are showing great improvement toward accommodating non-traditional applicants as well as those studying at post-secondary institutions that do not offer some of the prerequisites.

 

A dear friend of mine, who happens to be my first aid instructor, is a non-traditional applicant -- this person, without a doubt, is one of the most exceptionally outstanding people I have ever met in my life; not only is he passionate about medicine, but he truly deserves to be part of it (I already see him as a doctor haha). The only struggle he is facing is obtaining his science prerequisite credits, which happens to no longer be an issue -- I am so thrilled to tell him the news!

 

Although this does affect students who are caught in the middle (already in their program and planning to take these science prereqs), with careful planning I think they can also benefit. UBC has emphasized the idea of students pursuing an undergraduate program that they find most interesting to them over and over again. At least now, students can register for courses with less pressure from the science prereqs. Having said that, it is up to pre-med students to still have a sufficient foundation in science before they tackle the rigorous medical curriculum.

[neurophile]

Can someone explain to me what their prediction of this policy is, should it be implemented? 

 

 

Hey Frederick! The science prerequisite courses will no longer be required at UBC, but they still require 2 semesters of English. This proposal was passed yesterday by the university, and it starts for the 2016/2017 cycle. Check out their website. They've been pretty transparent about the process. 

[_ _]

I still don't see the reason why one needs to have 6 English credits considering most, if not all, applicants have English as a first language or have a good grasp of it. One could argue that having a good grasp of the English language is required to achieve grades which are competitive for Canadian medical schools. Most Canadian Universities don't require the credits and and yet they still manage to produce very competent doctors. 

I never understood it until I took english. I hated every second of it, but my writing has improved by huge strides from the class, although I didn't see at the time how analyzing poetry was relevant to me in any way. I think it's more about how critical markers are in english, for grammar and style, so much more than any other course I've taken.

[_ _]

I look at this as a positive step forward for UBC Medicine. I think they are showing great improvement toward accommodating non-traditional applicants as well as those studying at post-secondary institutions that do not offer some of the prerequisites.

 

A dear friend of mine, who happens to be my first aid instructor, is a non-traditional applicant -- this person, without a doubt, is one of the most exceptionally outstanding people I have ever met in my life; not only is he passionate about medicine, but he truly deserves to be part of it (I already see him as a doctor haha). The only struggle he is facing is obtaining his science prerequisite credits, which happens to no longer be an issue -- I am so thrilled to tell him the news!

 

Although this does affect students who are caught in the middle (already in their program and planning to take these science prereqs), with careful planning I think they can also benefit. UBC has emphasized the idea of students pursuing an undergraduate program that they find most interesting to them over and over again. At least now, students can register for courses with less pressure from the science prereqs. Having said that, it is up to pre-med students to still have a sufficient foundation in science before they tackle the rigorous medical curriculum.

I'm so happy for my good friend in nursing, who is IP only for UBC. She was going to need to wait a year to apply and finish her biochem prereq, among others, and now  she can apply right away. She is amazing with patients, and there's no reason why her degree should have made applying more difficult for her, over someone like myself with a BSc. 

The expression on her face when I showed her the website was priceless

[Neurophilic]

I never understood it until I took english. I hated every second of it, but my writing has improved by huge strides from the class, although I didn't see at the time how analyzing poetry was relevant to me in any way. I think it's more about how critical markers are in english, for grammar and style, so much more than any other course I've taken.

I agree with what you're saying. I just feel like the requirement that it be an English course is unnecessarily restrictive. I understand that a lot of the medical profession requires that someone right well but to say that you need to develop your style and grammar to the level of an English major is a little overboard (I'm not saying that it wouldn't benefit, I just believe it's a lot more than is required). My writing personally improved substantially within the last couple of years from taking essay courses in both the science and philosophy disciplines. I wonder if altering that policy to a certain number of essay credits where actual essays and papers are required would have a similar effect without being so restrictive.   

[amichel]

I agree with what you're saying. I just feel like the requirement that it be an English course is unnecessarily restrictive. I understand that a lot of the medical profession requires that someone right well but to say that you need to develop your style and grammar to the level of an English major is a little overboard (I'm not saying that it wouldn't benefit, I just believe it's a lot more than is required). My writing personally improved substantially within the last couple of years from taking essay courses in both the science and philosophy disciplines. I wonder if altering that policy to a certain number of essay credits where actual essays and papers are required would have a similar effect without being so restrictive.

Haha, ironic typo.

 

Taking two English courses is hardly at the level of an English major. And while I agree with you, in theory, that would require UBC to evaluate the amount of writing required in each individual course, for tons of schools. Not practical.

[Neurophilic]

 

Taking two English courses is hardly at the level of an English major.

Haha ya I did exaggerate that one a little bit but only to make a point  

 

 

And while I agree with you, in theory, that would require UBC to evaluate the amount of writing required in each individual course, for tons of schools. Not practical.

True. Maybe I'm just a little bitter because I refused to take an English credit during my undergrad lol. 

 

Oh and I just realized where that typo was lmao. The things we say/"right" late at night lol 

[amichel]

Haha ya I did exaggerate that one a little bit but only to make a point

 

 

True. Maybe I'm just a little bitter because I refused to take an English credit during my undergrad lol.

 

Oh and I just realized where that typo was lmao. The things we say/"right" late at night lol

Haha no worries we've all done it. And that's fair. They weren't my favourite either, but being forced to read classic literature never makes you a worse person.

[46dr]

I actually ended up loving both my english courses. I hated getting marks back, but the actual content was extremely interesting. 

 

The funny thing is, I now see that what I learned can actually be directly applicable to medicine. Analyzing is analyzing, whether it's lab values or Kafka. English helped me stretch my mind to see things that I wouldn't have picked up on before. 

 

Anyway, my 2 cents.

[rmorelan]

I actually ended up loving both my english courses. I hated getting marks back, but the actual content was extremely interesting. 

 

The funny thing is, I now see that what I learned can actually be directly applicable to medicine. Analyzing is analyzing, whether it's lab values or Kafka. English helped me stretch my mind to see things that I wouldn't have picked up on before. 

 

Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

interesting change - they are implying that the move will increase the number of students in the program that would want family medicine. They must have some evidence that social science students etc tend to go that route.

[amichel]

interesting change - they are implying that the move will increase the number of students in the program that would want family medicine. They must have some evidence that social science students etc tend to go that route.

I'm thinking it's probably non-trads more than social science students, but I could be wrong.

[rmorelan]

I'm thinking it's probably non-trads more than social science students, but I could be wrong.

 

true - I was lumping too few fields into their non trad section - and they say non-trad backgrounds, rather than non-trad students (point I guess is a lot of non-trad students as we would define them on this board would have completed the science credits - say second degree students for instance often would). They are encouraging people that wouldn't have done the science credits to apply. 

 

and the fact that they are advertising it no less - they are not saying they would prefer students with a particular background, but they are saying there is a solid rational for actually doing just that.

[JohnGrisham]

interesting change - they are implying that the move will increase the number of students in the program that would want family medicine. They must have some evidence that social science students etc tend to go that route.

Not necessarily, no one has seen any of the data to show such a case.

[rmorelan]

Not necessarily, no one has seen any of the data to show such a case.

 

no but they are just stating in their announcement. I mean the Senate of the university is saying it as fact, which means they must have  something to back it up(?).

[JohnGrisham]

no but they are just stating in their announcement. I mean the Senate of the university is saying it as fact, which means they must have something to back it up(?).

The senate is simply the body that approves the motion, which presumably went through a rigorous process at the faculty level before it. Perhaps they have data but nothing they have shared with anyone.

[rmorelan]

The senate is simply the body that approves the motion, which presumably went through a rigorous process at the faculty level before it. Perhaps they have data but nothing they have shared with anyone.

 

that is exactly what I think it is going on -  I mean in the motions I been a part of delivered to university senates they have been rather rigorous in vetting facts along the way. I am not surprised a school didn't provide an exact break down their students' backgrounds etc publicly

[MrWesting]

I wonder if this will lead to a slight change in the admission criteria? The importance of one's pre-req average has never really been understood (although likely minimal). Maybe we'll see a slightly stronger emphasis on the MCAT, since it's now the only assessment of foundational knowledge in science. Do other non-prereq schools in Canada put any particular emphasis on the MCAT?

[nick]

I wonder if this will lead to a slight change in the admission criteria? The importance of one's pre-req average has never really been understood (although likely minimal). Maybe we'll see a slightly stronger emphasis on the MCAT, since it's now the only assessment of foundational knowledge in science. Do other non-prereq schools in Canada put any particular emphasis on the MCAT?

 

Offhand, I know that the University of Calgary assigns 10% of your initial score (used to determine if you get an interview) to the CARS section, and 10% to a subjective review of your academic ability (which includes all MCAT sections to some degree). The initial score counts for half of your final assessment (the interview is the other half), so, combining the CARS and subjective academic scores and dividing by two, the MCAT is at least 5% but no more than 10% of the final assessment. (I say between 5 and 10% because we don't how much the MCAT affects different people's subjective academic scores.)