Should I Apply?

[bizz]

My university marks have not been the greatest, however I started an upward trend. Would completing a fifth and a sixth year make medical schools to reject you on the spot? Also, for verification, only Western, Queens and Dalhousie look at the last two years, with only Ottawa with the last three years?

 

Thanks

[_ _]

Yes, to all those things. 

 

How many low years do you have? How low is 'low' in your opinion.

 

But it's certainly possible. Keep in mind Western needs a very high CARS score and Dalhousie really looks for a maritime connection, so it's a bit of a gamble for OOP.

 

It really depends on your current grades, but generally 2-3 strong years is enough

[bizz]

Yes, to all those things. 

 

How many low years do you have? How low is 'low' in your opinion.

 

But it's certainly possible. Keep in mind Western needs a very high CARS score and Dalhousie really looks for a maritime connection, so it's a bit of a gamble for OOP.

 

It really depends on your current grades, but generally 2-3 strong years is enough

So taking additional years would not make you a potential candidate? I was hoping an additional two years would make be a better candidate especially for Ottawa, Queens, Dalhousie and Western. 

 

My 1st and 2nd year ~ 2.7, 3rd year ~3.0 and 4th year ~3.5. I was hoping a 5th and 6th year could get me a ~3.8. It may be unlikely, but I'd like to give it a shot. 

[NotASerialKiller]

So taking additional years would not make you a potential candidate? I was hoping an additional two years would make be a better candidate especially for Ottawa, Queens, Dalhousie and Western. 

 

My 1st and 2nd year ~ 2.7, 3rd year ~3.0 and 4th year ~3.5. I was hoping a 5th and 6th year could get me a ~3.8. It may be unlikely, but I'd like to give it a shot. 

 

I think something got muddled in the phrasing there, I believe he was trying to say that additional years can help, which is true. When you say "3rd year ~3.0 and 4th year ~3.5" do you mean you got a 3.0 in 3rd and 3.5 in 4th, or are you talking about your cumulative GPA after those years? It would be more useful if you gave the GPA of each individual year, that matters a lot for UofO and the 2 year GPA schools

[bizz]

I think something got muddled in the phrasing there, I believe he was trying to say that additional years can help, which is true. When you say "3rd year ~3.0 and 4th year ~3.5" do you mean you got a 3.0 in 3rd and 3.5 in 4th, or are you talking about your cumulative GPA after those years? It would be more useful if you gave the GPA of each individual year, that matters a lot for UofO and the 2 year GPA schools

 

The marks indicated are rough estimates of my GPA in that specific mentioned year. 

[SleeyPanda]

So taking additional years would not make you a potential candidate? I was hoping an additional two years would make be a better candidate especially for Ottawa, Queens, Dalhousie and Western. 

 

My 1st and 2nd year ~ 2.7, 3rd year ~3.0 and 4th year ~3.5. I was hoping a 5th and 6th year could get me a ~3.8. It may be unlikely, but I'd like to give it a shot. 

 

Your marks would still not be competitive enough...Not even close. I would recommend doing a 2nd UG instead of a 5th/6th year. 

[Neurophilic]

So taking additional years would not make you a potential candidate? I was hoping an additional two years would make be a better candidate especially for Ottawa, Queens, Dalhousie and Western. 

 

My 1st and 2nd year ~ 2.7, 3rd year ~3.0 and 4th year ~3.5. I was hoping a 5th and 6th year could get me a ~3.8. It may be unlikely, but I'd like to give it a shot. 

You could do a 5th and 6th year and if you do well in them you could be competitive for Queen's, Western, Dal. The only thing is you really can't make any mistakes so it will be tough. I personally would go with the 5th and 6th year and give that a shot and then think about doing a second undergrad if things don't go your way. 

[SleeyPanda]

You could do a 5th and 6th year and if you do well in them you could be competitive for Queen's, Western, Dal. The only thing is you really can't make any mistakes so it will be tough. I personally would go with the 5th and 6th year and give that a shot and then think about doing a second undergrad if things don't go your way. 

 

I would be inclined to agree with you if this was purely numbers, but considering OP did so poorly in school, do you think that he/she will have the appropriate MCAT that those schools need to offset his/her GPA? I really do like how supportive this forum is, but we also need to be realistic and not give dangerous support.  

[Neurophilic]

I would be inclined to agree with you if this was purely numbers, but considering OP did so poorly in school, do you think that he/she will have the appropriate MCAT that those schools need to offset his/her GPA? I really do like how supportive this forum is, but we also need to be realistic and not give dangerous support.  

This point could also be applied to the next 2 years or even a 2nd UG. Given the past years do you believe that they can actually increase their gpa to what is medschool-competitive in the years to come? I think people can do it and it is not easy but can be done. The way I see it is that the MCAT is one exam that can be written more than once within a year. Even if it take the OP 2 years worth of writing the MCAT to get the desired score I really do believe that it can be done. I feel that GPA is truly the most difficult part in becoming competitive for medical school. Yes, you are right that we do need to be realistic and that is why I have cautioned that it is going to be really tough. And yes, not everybody is able to achieve it but I cannot assume that the OP cannot achieve it.

 

To the OP: I sincerely wish you luck with your future endeavours and I think the best advice is to think critically about the advice you receive, including mine, and make a decision based on what you believe you can realistically achieve. I'm not going to lie and tell you that my advice is the best because to be honest whether you do a 5th and 6th year or a second degree doesn't really matter. Both can achieve your ultimate goal, however, the better decision will be that which is better suited for you and your abilities.  

[SleeyPanda]

This point could also be applied to the next 2 years or even a 2nd UG. Given the past years do you believe that they can actually increase their gpa to what is medschool-competitive in the years to come? I think people can do it and it is not easy but can be done. The way I see it is that the MCAT is one exam that can be written more than once within a year. Even if it take the OP 2 years worth of writing the MCAT to get the desired score I really do believe that it can be done. I feel that GPA is truly the most difficult part in becoming competitive for medical school. Yes, you are right that we do need to be realistic and that is why I have cautioned that it is going to be really tough. And yes, not everybody is able to achieve it but I cannot assume that the OP cannot achieve it.

 

To the OP: I sincerely wish you luck with your future endeavours and I think the best advice is to think critically about the advice you receive, including mine, and make a decision based on what you believe you can realistically achieve. I'm not going to lie and tell you that my advice is the best because to be honest whether you do a 5th and 6th year or a second degree doesn't really matter. Both can achieve your ultimate goal, however, the better decision will be that which is better suited for you and your abilities.  

 

You're 100% correct. Just look at some of the non-trad stories and you can see how much of a comeback people make. But also notice how much they have bled and sweat to get in after not doing so hot in their UG. The point of my posts wasn't to deter you from pursuing medicine, OP, but to make you critically think about the path you are choosing to go through, as Neurophilic said. It's easy to sit back during summer break and say "What if I absolutely kill the next two years" (God knows we've all done that), but you also don't want to end up with a 6 year bachelors that is worth nothing. I think my advice is to reflect on how badly you want this and how much you're willing to risk. 

 

Despite what we've been led to believe, medicine isn't the only career in existence. 

[JohnGrisham]

I would be inclined to agree with you if this was purely numbers, but considering OP did so poorly in school, do you think that he/she will have the appropriate MCAT that those schools need to offset his/her GPA? I really do like how supportive this forum is, but we also need to be realistic and not give dangerous support.  

Your advice hasn't been helpful in this thread. 

 

There is no functional difference for them doing a 5th/6th year, and starting a second degree. 

 

If they can improve their gpa, in the 5th year, then great go on and do the 6th year. If not, then they can re-evaluate and just graduate and look elsewhere.

[NotASerialKiller]

OP the main takeaway here is that you have to get much better grades. It's fine to plan, but you haven't yet had a year in the range that you would need for med school. Take it one step at a time, and have a backup plan. If you give it your all next year and don't get a competitive GPA, additional years/degrees won't do you any good. If you do, then you can really start planning and look into how each school calculates wGPA. Canadian schools are pretty forgiving in that many of them look at your more recent years or degree, so you're never toast if you can actually get those grades. Right now your only job is proving to yourself that you can.

[Egg_McMuffin]

Great upward trend. The only advice I would give is to really think about why your grades haven't been the best and doing everything you can to fix that (whether it's going to another school, another program, removing yourself from an environment that's not conductive to success, or even taking some time off from school). It'd be optimal if the courses that you will taking in 5th/6th year will lead to a solid backup should medicine never work out. I personally did a second degree and was rejected this cycle; I of course was devastated but I can't even imagine how I'd feel if I was stuck with another degree that I can't do much with. Something to think about.

Btw I'd aim for higher than 3.8. Aim for a 4.0 so that when shit hits the fan (because life happens) you can still have some room for error.

[bizz]

Thank you to everyone for your insights. I do agree that my grades are definitely weak, and sure I won't be fit for medical school. Truthfully, if I did put in effort, I perhaps could've gotten a better GPA. But I decided to pull all nighters for all of my exams, hoping that I could at least pass them. This year I changed my habits, studying at least a few weeks before finals, but sadly I was not able to write one exam, which in turn resulted me to do poorly in a course, thus affecting my 4th year GPA. 

 

 

All in all. Would you suggest for me to do a second degree or a 5th/6th year. How are the two different? I really don't understand this concept of completing a second degree. Does it give you more options to apply for medical school if you complete a second degree rather than a 5th/6th year? 

[SleeyPanda]

 

All in all. Would you suggest for me to do a second degree or a 5th/6th year. How are the two different? I really don't understand this concept of completing a second degree. Does it give you more options to apply for medical school if you complete a second degree rather than a 5th/6th year? 

 

I guess my advice for doing a second degree came from my knowledge about the school I was more interested in (McGill), which will completely disregard the grades of your first degree if the second degree is higher. Most other schools, however, would not be affected as much. McMaster looks at ALL grades from ALL undergrads. Queens, Ottawa, UT, Western, Calgary, and others will weigh it the same way they normally do regardless of the degree. I guess the main difference (if you're not interested in McGill) is how useful your current degree is. If it is in a useful field, then stick with the 5/6th year regime and hope for the best, but if this is more or a less a premed degree, I'd strongly recommend doing a second degree in a field that could be used as a back-up to medicine. Not even necessarily to quit pursuing medicine, but to secure you a decent job while still pursuing medicine. 

 

If anyone has anything to add, or can correct something I'm mistaken about, please feel free to!

[Egg_McMuffin]

If you do a second degree you will need to pay special attention to the levels of courses you'll be forced to take in order to fast -track your degree. Western in particular pays attention to this.

[bizz]

This point could also be applied to the next 2 years or even a 2nd UG. Given the past years do you believe that they can actually increase their gpa to what is medschool-competitive in the years to come? I think people can do it and it is not easy but can be done. The way I see it is that the MCAT is one exam that can be written more than once within a year. Even if it take the OP 2 years worth of writing the MCAT to get the desired score I really do believe that it can be done. I feel that GPA is truly the most difficult part in becoming competitive for medical school. Yes, you are right that we do need to be realistic and that is why I have cautioned that it is going to be really tough. And yes, not everybody is able to achieve it but I cannot assume that the OP cannot achieve it.

 

To the OP: I sincerely wish you luck with your future endeavours and I think the best advice is to think critically about the advice you receive, including mine, and make a decision based on what you believe you can realistically achieve. I'm not going to lie and tell you that my advice is the best because to be honest whether you do a 5th and 6th year or a second degree doesn't really matter. Both can achieve your ultimate goal, however, the better decision will be that which is better suited for you and your abilities.

 

 

 

With western mentioning a 3/5 rule, and Dal and queens not mentioning anything about required courses. Would it be ideal to take a first year course in one's fifth/sixth year. Also would taking 3 second year courses look bad? What would be the ideal number of first or second year courses to take in ones fifth/sixth year.

[SleeyPanda]

With western mentioning a 3/5 rule, and Dal and queens not mentioning anything about required courses. Would it be ideal to take a first year course in one's fifth/sixth year. Also would taking 3 second year courses look bad? What would be the ideal number of first or second year courses to take in ones fifth/sixth year.

 

From my understanding, medical schools don't really care about the level of courses you take as long as you're meeting the requirements of their weighing and your degree. For Western, if you take 6/10 courses during the year as upper year courses, the rest can be first year courses and it wouldn't matter. The issue generally arises with your actual degree, where most universities actually limit the amount of first year courses you can take in one degree. I'd double check that before enrolling.

[Neurophilic]

With western mentioning a 3/5 rule, and Dal and queens not mentioning anything about required courses. Would it be ideal to take a first year course in one's fifth/sixth year. Also would taking 3 second year courses look bad? What would be the ideal number of first or second year courses to take in ones fifth/sixth year.

There's no ideal. Just make sure you meet the rules for the schools you'd like to apply to (i.e. Western wants 3/5 to be at 3rd year or above in your case) as well as the rules for your degree. My schools had a rule that you could only take 7.0 credits as first year classes to be included in your degree. 

[bruhh]

I think it's worth mentioning that the fact that you would be OK for western and queens because of meeting their GPA cut off may not be as promising as some make it seem.

 

Western is notorious for requiring a very high MCAT score in order to get an interview. While these cut offs do change year to year, they have steadily been very high (above 95th percentile in some sections). Banking on western shouldn't be your goal. Queens has the most unpredictable admission system that no one has yet figured it completely. While a "good" MCAT score and 3.8+ GPA in your last 2 years would advance you to the next stage, your EC's and references might make a substantial contribution thereafter.

Dalhousie has provincial quotas, they accept a total of ~9 non-maritime applicants every year.

 

 

What I'm trying to say is that having just Queen's and Western under on your list might be a narrow path to follow. I would look more broadly into medical schools around Canada and possibly the US and consider the merit of doing a second UG degree. Unless you're okay with doing a 5th/6th and then a second UG.

 

You may want to maximize your competitiveness in every other area that you are able to do so. Your EC's, references, MCAT, geographical region (moving to another province might help). How badly do you want this? It's still possible, but I'm not going to sugar coat and say you'll be fine. You need to go all out from Now!

[j17f]

Another thing to think about is that when you complete a second degree, McGill will only look at the GPA from that degree. But if you're aiming for a 3.8 then there is no hope for McGill OOP

[_ _]

I think it's worth mentioning that the fact that you would be OK for western and queens because of meeting their GPA cut off may not be as promising as some make it seem.

 

Western is notorious for requiring a very high MCAT score in order to get an interview. While these cut offs do change year to year, they have steadily been very high (above 95th percentile in some sections). Banking on western shouldn't be your goal. Queens has the most unpredictable admission system that no one has yet figured it completely. While a "good" MCAT score and 3.8+ GPA in your last 2 years would advance you to the next stage, your EC's and references might make a substantial contribution thereafter.

Dalhousie has provincial quotas, they accept a total of ~9 non-maritime applicants every year.

 

I agree completely. It's good to be optimistic, but there also needs to be realism. Statistically, assuming anyone would be in the top 3% of all MCAT writers on the CARS/VR section is a risk. I personally know I could have written the MCAT 3 times and never gotten a 130CARS. And even have been accepted to Queen's I still have absolutely no clue what they were looking for....I feel like I know so many better applicants than me who didn't get interviews there. 

 

One option, which the Dal point reminded me of, would be to do a second degree at UofC or UofA, which may give them marginally better chances. Although this still might be rough because they don't drop the first degree I don't think. Still, for UofC may be worthwhile. 

 

Either way, it's going to be a long road from here, and finding a path that also is a back-up would be best