Anatomical Path / Forensic Path Job Market

[shakeshake]

Hard to decipher what the job market is for this speciality... Lots of horror stories on the web with the situation in the states.

 

If someone wanted to primarily do autopsies, are jobs relatively available? What might a salary look like? Would doing fellowship training in forsenics be required?

 

I've noticed a number of Canadian grads do fellowships in the states - are the Canadian fellowship programs (ie. Toronto or UofA forensics) not as strong?

 

It seems the trend in Path is to subspecislize in one area (derm, heme, breast, Ect) - how necessary is this for employment at an academic center (Van, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto)?

 

Are salaries for paths that work primarily with surgical specimens/sub speciality areas different than that of a forensic pathologist? Is it possible to dabble in a bit of both?

 

Any insight from current residents would be awesome.

[birthoggdube]

Hard to decipher what the job market is for this speciality... Lots of horror stories on the web with the situation in the states.Job market is bad in the US for graduates from non-prestigious programs, yes.

 

If someone wanted to primarily do autopsies, are jobs relatively available? What might a salary look like? Would doing fellowship training in forsenics be required? Medical autopsies are very different from forensic autopsies.  No pathologist primarily does medical autopsies because the volume just isn't there.  Forensic pathologists do make a living on forensic autopsies.  Fellowship in Forensic Pathology (in Canada or USA) is required.  You might want to look up salaries on Ontario's Sunshine List for some representative numbers in Canada.

 

I've noticed a number of Canadian grads do fellowships in the states - are the Canadian fellowship programs (ie. Toronto or UofA forensics) not as strong? Again, are you talking about forensic or non-forensic pathology?  There is a relative dearth of fellowship opportunities in Canada because there is little funding for fellowship programs.  Many fellowships in Canada require you to obtain external funding, e.g. from your future employer or some research grant.

 

It seems the trend in Path is to subspecislize in one area (derm, heme, breast, Ect) - how necessary is this for employment at an academic center (Van, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto)? Very desirable if not necessary, period.

 

Are salaries for paths that work primarily with surgical specimens/sub speciality areas different than that of a forensic pathologist? Don't remember the numbers from the ON Sunshine List off the top of my head.  Is it possible to dabble in a bit of both? Generally, no.

Any insight from current residents would be awesome.

[GrouchoMarx]

Hard to decipher what the job market is for this speciality... Lots of horror stories on the web with the situation in the states.

 

Its so bad in the US that a lot of american pathologists work in canada. if you check out the rosters for rural places in BC and the atlantics, theyre filled with americans. name one other field where americans come to canada and not the other way around.

 

If someone wanted to primarily do autopsies, are jobs relatively available? What might a salary look like? Would doing fellowship training in forsenics be required?

 

only forensics. the salary is just that so you get hit big during tax time. 

you cant make a living on medical autopsy because the volume isnt there. theyre just not done often anymore.

 

I've noticed a number of Canadian grads do fellowships in the states - are the Canadian fellowship programs (ie. Toronto or UofA forensics) not as strong?

 

the states has more programs and more opportunities than canada for fellowships.  would you rather study breast path at mayo or at saskatoon?

 

It seems the trend in Path is to subspecislize in one area (derm, heme, breast, Ect) - how necessary is this for employment at an academic center (Van, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto)?

 

big cities have a lot of competition for limited spots so fellowships are becoming necessary. 

 

Are salaries for paths that work primarily with surgical specimens/sub speciality areas different than that of a forensic pathologist? Is it possible to dabble in a bit of both?

 

you can make more money doing surgpath than forensics. depending on how you manipulate contracts and obtain work, surg path can be lucrative. forensics has a ceiling because youd be a government employee.

Any insight from current residents would be awesome.

 

the pathology job market is very bad and the professional environment unfulfilling. youd best consider other fields.

[rial2]

If you're interested in forensic pathology, and would be willing to relocate, they have a shortage in rural areas of the USA. 

 

It sucks to hear that the job market is bleak - I've wanted to go into forensic pathology since I was in high school! 

 

Quick edit after I noticed a point mentioned above: I don't believe that you need to be a government employee to be a forensic pathologist. I know for a fact that there are doctors who perform forensic autopsies for their local region, but are not considered to be a "forensic pathologist" nor a government employee, since they're not at the Center for Forensics in Torono. 

[GrouchoMarx]

If you're interested in forensic pathology, and would be willing to relocate, they have a shortage in rural areas of the USA. 

 

It sucks to hear that the job market is bleak - I've wanted to go into forensic pathology since I was in high school! 

 

Quick edit after I noticed a point mentioned above: I don't believe that you need to be a government employee to be a forensic pathologist. I know for a fact that there are doctors who perform forensic autopsies for their local region, but are not considered to be a "forensic pathologist" nor a government employee, since they're not at the Center for Forensics in Torono. 

 

Forensics has a shortage in the USA because it is an awful job with the lowest pay in medicine there. even lower than family medicine. its terrible.

 

your last point is confusing the coroners autopsy system with forensic pathology. in ontario some pathologists do coroner cases on the side. they pay well but there are not too many of them. you do not have to be forensic boarded to do them. because of the charles smith hysteria i see ontario slowly sending all coroner cases to dedicated forensic centers. there arent many so it would not be a big issue.

[Laika]

If someone wanted to primarily do autopsies, are jobs relatively available? What might a salary look like? Would doing fellowship training in forsenics be required?

 

Currently, the job market in Canada is excellent for forensics.  The U of T fellows don't have any trouble finding work.  Of course, that may change by the time you finish training!  Salary is not as good as surgical pathology, but is much better than the states (~$320K).  Keep in mind that it includes pension and benefits, but also includes evening and weekend call, which is much heavier than in surgical pathology.  A fellowship in forensics is now basically required to practice forensics in Canada.

 

I've noticed a number of Canadian grads do fellowships in the states - are the Canadian fellowship programs (ie. Toronto or UofA forensics) not as strong?

 

Are you asking specifically about forensics fellowships or in general?  If forensics, I can't comment on the U of A program, but the U of T fellowship program is outstanding.  Great staff, world class facilities.  Grads have no trouble finding jobs.  If you would like to practice forensics in Canada, you are probably best completing a fellowship in Canada.  The case mix here is very different from the US (far fewer homicides and more natural death); you're better training in an environment where you'll see cases similar to where you ultimately practice.   Are you in med school?  If so, the Toronto forensics program is happy to have observers.  Spend a day or a week there, and you can see for yourself what the program is like.