Surgery Without "the Lifestyle"?

[coffeeplz]

I know that I am interested in certain aspects of surgery, having done some research that required me to perform fairly complicated procedures on animals. I like being "in the zone" so to speak, of doing something very delicate with my hands, and the challenge. However, I'm not interested in what is sort of typically described as the lifestyle of a surgeon. I don't want to be on call for the next 30 years, rushing in at all hours of the night, etc.

 

Are there opportunities to do interesting and challenging surgical procedures without having the lifestyle of a surgeon? Is this in some ways what doing ophthalmology, for example, would be like?

[mononoke]

You might like Obs/Gyn, in the early stages of training, you might be living the lifestyle of a surgeon but later on you can do more of the gyne stuff which has better lifestyle and supplement your work with a few OR days 2-4 times a month 

 

Or plastic surgery - maybe a hand fellowship. It's delicate short procedures with good hours from what I've seen

[NLengr]

I know that I am interested in certain aspects of surgery, having done some research that required me to perform fairly complicated procedures on animals. I like being "in the zone" so to speak, of doing something very delicate with my hands, and the challenge. However, I'm not interested in what is sort of typically described as the lifestyle of a surgeon. I don't want to be on call for the next 30 years, rushing in at all hours of the night, etc.

 

Are there opportunities to do interesting and challenging surgical procedures without having the lifestyle of a surgeon? Is this in some ways what doing ophthalmology, for example, would be like?

Any of the following in the community: ENT, Uro, Plastics or Optho are all pretty decent. Maybe some evening work when you are on call but you won't be in there at 2 am very much.

[Edict]

Potentially Breast Surgery? But you probably still have to do Gen Surg call though.. 

[rmorelan]

Any of the following in the community: ENT, Uro, Plastics or Optho are all pretty decent. Maybe some evening work when you are on call but you won't be in there at 2 am very much.

 

definitely some of the better ones - my friends still tell me about community uro being called in the middle of the night to put in a foleys (no residents, ha), but hopefully that is rare. 

[NLengr]

I know a community uro guy on the East coast and he said he's only had to go in overnight 3 times this year. That's pretty good.

[rmorelan]

I know a community uro guy on the East coast and he said he's only had to go in overnight 3 times this year. That's pretty good.

 

that is pretty good - if you are in the community really getting a system with the rest of the hospital in place seems important to support a solid lifestyle. One big happy family. 

[NLengr]

that is pretty good - if you are in the community really getting a system with the rest of the hospital in place seems important to support a solid lifestyle. One big happy family.

I found out once I left academic settings that in community hospitals docs seem to generally try to be nice to each other and make each others lives easier. It was a refreshing change from everyone being arseholes to each other in the academic hospitals.

[F508]

Any of the following in the community: ENT, Uro, Plastics or Optho are all pretty decent. Maybe some evening work when you are on call but you won't be in there at 2 am very much.

So these specialities in academic centers are still bad? In which ways are they worse when compared to community practices?

[mononoke]

I found out once I left academic settings that in community hospitals docs seem to generally try to be nice to each other and make each others lives easier. It was a refreshing change from everyone being arseholes to each other in the academic hospitals.

I've heard this too happening in the academic centres...why is that? 

[NLengr]

I've heard this too happening in the academic centres...why is that?

Probably something to do with lots of big personalities all trying to develop/maintain academic careers who think of themselves as more important than they are. As a result, they disrespect other docs and have issues with working together. It's live to work. Then the more you are in that environment, the more you act like it. Plus some staff love to push aroubd thier own residents, other services residents etc. which doesn't help the general atmosphere. They also tend to be bigger places so you can be a dick and possibly never see the other person again.

 

In the community, most people are working to live, so they have a better world view. They're just more relaxed. Plus they're smaller centers. You might have to see the guy you are a dick to every month for a medical committee meeting, so you try not to be a dick.

[W0lfgang]

I've heard this too happening in the academic centres...why is that? 

 

There are much more resident-resident or resident-fellow interactions in academic centres.  They're not paid for extra work. ===> turf

[rmorelan]

that may be part of it! Also in a community centre everyone knows that memories are long, and there is time to return favours etc. You are going to be working with all the same doctors for 30 years. You piss of a particular team by being stupid and for the rest of your career potentially all the docs in that group (all 4-5 of them, ha) is going to look at you in a particular way and make your life annoying (same goes for pissing off the nursing team that you need to work with for the next 30 years as well). Word gets out - being an ass doesn't really help you in the long term. You will be punished in ways both subtle and gross.

 

I find residents are usually forgiving of other residents because we all know what we are going through. We know when someone is doing a hell block and understand if they are out of it. We expect consideration usually in return (don't call me at 5am for instance for a US that won't be done until the tech comes in at 7am - at best I only get about an hour of sleep on call). Still with the sheer number of people and short time frame (I mean about 1/3-1/2 of the docs are only there for 2 years) it is harder to develop a good working relationship/educated about the hidden rules etc.

[Med26]

Is general surgery really a «lifestyle killer»? How much more do general surgeons as staff work compared to other surgical specialists? I do understand that on call hours are pretty rough but is it that bad during ''normal days'' in community centers?

 

I'm really torn between two surgical specialties. I really like gen surg, its probably my favourite surgical specialty in terms of medical aspect, but the lifestyle's a real debbie downer for me right now...

[Edict]

Is general surgery really a «lifestyle killer»? How much more do general surgeons as staff work compared to other surgical specialists? I do understand that on call hours are pretty rough but is it that bad during ''normal days'' in community centers?

 

I'm really torn between two surgical specialties. I really like gen surg, its probably my favourite surgical specialty in terms of medical aspect, but the lifestyle's a real debbie downer for me right now...

 

I've heard that residency is tough, the reason is that gen surg does a lot of consults overnight whereas other surgical specialties typically just deal with their own specialty. However, as an attending it can get better depending on your subspecialty and how much call their is. I read on CMA website that gen surgeons work 54 hrs a week excluding call, which isn't too bad if you think about it. 

[NLengr]

Double post

[NLengr]

I've heard that residency is tough, the reason is that gen surg does a lot of consults overnight whereas other surgical specialties typically just deal with their own specialty. However, as an attending it can get better depending on your subspecialty and how much call their is. I read on CMA website that gen surgeons work 54 hrs a week excluding call, which isn't too bad if you think about it.

At my center for residency Ortho had quite a few consults over the course of the evening/night. Uro would usually have a couple too, Neurosurg was always up too, but usually operating.

 

This may be center, or even ER dependent, though.

[alt345]

1)Could anyone comment on the lifestyle in Obs/gyn?

2)Is it the residency with the worst work-life balance?

3)As a female who is interested in Obs/gyn (specifically Obstetrics and Obstetrics clinics and Gyne procedures) but also in a good lifestyle where I will have time for family and kids without having to stress, what should I do?

[NLengr]

1)Could anyone comment on the lifestyle in Obs/gyn?

2)Is it the residency with the worst work-life balance?

3)As a female who is interested in Obs/gyn (specifically Obstetrics and Obstetrics clinics and Gyne procedures) but also in a good lifestyle where I will have time for family and kids without having to stress, what should I do?

Maybe an Obs can comment on this better than I can but I always understood OBS had terrible hours because of the births. Pure Gyne practice was much better I was told.