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Applying To Irish Med Schools


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I've previously made this thread http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/92673-what-are-my-options-low-gpa/ about applying in Canada/U.S.  and wanted to have some info, if anybody knows about applying to Ireland concurrently in case I don't get in (most likely not) after my first year.

 

Relevant info: 

 

- Business degree (undergrad)

 

- Low GPA (between 3.0-3.1), but with an upward trend last two years, where it's somewhere around 3.5-3.7 and 2.4-2.6 first two years. 

 

- E.U. Citizen (both passport and national ID Card)

 

 

 

My current plan, as advised here and on SDN, is to start a second degree, at least get my science pre-reqs in and maintain a high GPA, preferably 4.0, while working on my E.C.'s and keep applying to Canadian med schools throughout doing my degree (not necessarily finish but have 1-2 good GPA years). Also wanted to do the MCAT in January initially (and was progressing well), but I'm probably gonna wait it out, til at least doing a full semester of pre-reqs, if not the whole year. 

 

Now, I read online, that most Irish schools don't have cutoffs (except for Trinity where I saw 3.3GPA) so thinking of applying to their unis as well. However, I am not sure on their tuition fees. It seems that if you are a non-E.U. it's very high, in the 40k euro/year range, but my understanding is if you are E.U. its free (except the 3000 nominal fee they seem to ask)? Is this the case? 

 

 

If so, it seems their criteria for determining E.U. citizen doesn't automatically get you in with a passport. But it seems that if you have lived there for more than 183 days for 3 years of the past 5 you qualify. I did do the latter (about 270 days+ of the last 3 years actually, with the days I was not there either traveling or coming back to Canada to see parents and staying a bit), have a national ID card (which you only technically get if you live in the specific country permanently), an E.U. driver's license (which is given under the same circumstance only), 3 years worth of utility bills, and an apartment in said country where tax/upkeep is always paid. Now I don't have tax records, but I assume the previous would be enough to not have any problems. 

 

However, all my post secondary schooling is done/will be done in Canada. I am not sure how/if this changes the application process given the above, as I would want to apply as a E.U. citizen to be exempt of the tuition fee (if it's the case), but with all my education done here. 

 

Also, as I've said, my main goal would be Canadian med school, but want to keep Irish as a plan B, followed by maybe Poland as a plan C (are there any others offering 4 year programs instead of 6 to internationals?), so I'm gonna continue the path of improving GPA and studying for the MCAT. However, if I do get into Irish med school, and the tuition is low due to the E.U. status, I would accept it and either study well and try to transfer back into Canada (I know it's very hard due to the low IMG spots), or apply again at least during/after my first year in Ireland.

 

In any case, also wanted to ask when should I apply in order to have competitive chances for Ireland, after doing the MCAT/1st year or pre-reqs, or before? I'd assume the deadlines are passed for this year (and I don't envision I would have been too competitive), but since I plan on taking the MCAT (not sure how much emphasis they place on it) during the early part of next year after I finish a semester of sciences or so, I'm thinking maybe sometime after.  

 

Edit: And if I apply through their system (CAO) rather than ABP, which is what I would assume I have to do if I was to get the non international tuition, would the the requirements/competitiveness to get in be much more fierce, or stay relatively the same? 

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I've previously made this thread http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/92673-what-are-my-options-low-gpa/ about applying in Canada/U.S.  and wanted to have some info, if anybody knows about applying to Ireland concurrently in case I don't get in (most likely not) after my first year.

 

Relevant info: 

 

- Business degree (undergrad)

 

- Low GPA (between 3.0-3.1), but with an upward trend last two years, where it's somewhere around 3.5-3.7 and 2.4-2.6 first two years. 

 

- E.U. Citizen (both passport and national ID Card)

 

 

 

My current plan, as advised here and on SDN, is to start a second degree, at least get my science pre-reqs in and maintain a high GPA, preferably 4.0, while working on my E.C.'s and keep applying to Canadian med schools throughout doing my degree (not necessarily finish but have 1-2 good GPA years). Also wanted to do the MCAT in January initially (and was progressing well), but I'm probably gonna wait it out, til at least doing a full semester of pre-reqs, if not the whole year. 

 

Now, I read online, that most Irish schools don't have cutoffs (except for Trinity where I saw 3.3GPA) so thinking of applying to their unis as well. However, I am not sure on their tuition fees. It seems that if you are a non-E.U. it's very high, in the 40k euro/year range, but my understanding is if you are E.U. its free (except the 3000 nominal fee they seem to ask)? Is this the case? 

 

 

If so, it seems their criteria for determining E.U. citizen doesn't automatically get you in with a passport. But it seems that if you have lived there for more than 183 days for 3 years of the past 5 you qualify. I did do the latter (about 270 days+ of the last 3 years actually, with the days I was not there either traveling or coming back to Canada to see parents and staying a bit), have a national ID card (which you only technically get if you live in the specific country permanently), an E.U. driver's license (which is given under the same circumstance only), 3 years worth of utility bills, and an apartment in said country where tax/upkeep is always paid. Now I don't have tax records, but I assume the previous would be enough to not have any problems. 

 

However, all my post secondary schooling is done/will be done in Canada. I am not sure how/if this changes the application process given the above, as I would want to apply as a E.U. citizen to be exempt of the tuition fee (if it's the case), but with all my education done here. 

 

Also, as I've said, my main goal would be Canadian med school, but want to keep Irish as a plan B, followed by maybe Poland as a plan C (are there any others offering 4 year programs instead of 6 to internationals?), so I'm gonna continue the path of improving GPA and studying for the MCAT. However, if I do get into Irish med school, and the tuition is low due to the E.U. status, I would accept it and either study well and try to transfer back into Canada (I know it's very hard due to the low IMG spots), or apply again at least during/after my first year in Ireland.

 

In any case, also wanted to ask when should I apply in order to have competitive chances for Ireland, after doing the MCAT/1st year or pre-reqs, or before? I'd assume the deadlines are passed for this year (and I don't envision I would have been too competitive), but since I plan on taking the MCAT (not sure how much emphasis they place on it) during the early part of next year after I finish a semester of sciences or so, I'm thinking maybe sometime after.  

 

Edit: And if I apply through their system (CAO) rather than ABP, which is what I would assume I have to do if I was to get the non international tuition, would the the requirements/competitiveness to get in be much more fierce, or stay relatively the same? 

 

So most of what you said was right, but here are some answers to your questions. 

 

There is a big difference between EU citizen and EU residency. Unless you are currently resident in Ireland for several years you probably won't qualify for the subsidized tuition. The idea is that you paid taxes into the system, thats when they would subsidize your tuition. 

 

You can't ever transfer into a Canadian medical school. The best you can do is start over again. IMG spots are for residency not medical school. There are no such distinctions for Canadian medical school apps, you will be treated like other Canadian applicants. 

 

With a 3.0-3.1 GPA you probably aren't competitive in Ireland without an insane MCAT. 

 

People with 3.5 GPAs routinely get rejected, but with a strong MCAT you might have a chance. Your chances are better the higher your GPA is, from what I understand, Ireland is pretty holistic so they will probably care about an upward GPA trend and they will look at your application more completely. 

 

You can't apply through their local system since you didn't do high school there. Your only way there is through Atlantic Bridge. 

 

Your chances are probably best once your GPA improves and a lot rests on your MCAT. 

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So most of what you said was right, but here are some answers to your questions.

 

There is a big difference between EU citizen and EU residency. Unless you are currently resident in Ireland for several years you probably won't qualify for the subsidized tuition. The idea is that you paid taxes into the system, thats when they would subsidize your tuition.

 

You can't ever transfer into a Canadian medical school. The best you can do is start over again. IMG spots are for residency not medical school. There are no such distinctions for Canadian medical school apps, you will be treated like other Canadian applicants.

 

With a 3.0-3.1 GPA you probably aren't competitive in Ireland without an insane MCAT.

 

People with 3.5 GPAs routinely get rejected, but with a strong MCAT you might have a chance. Your chances are better the higher your GPA is, from what I understand, Ireland is pretty holistic so they will probably care about an upward GPA trend and they will look at your application more completely.

 

You can't apply through their local system since you didn't do high school there. Your only way there is through Atlantic Bridge.

 

Your chances are probably best once your GPA improves and a lot rests on your MCAT.

 

When I look at the Atlantic bridge FAQ, there is a section addressing the E.U. fees. It says that students who do qualify should apply through their CAO program. http://www.atlanticbridge.com/medicine/faq/ it's the 9th question. It seems most people say you can only apply through CAO if you do high school in Ireland, but the abp seems to say otherwise, so I'm not sure which it is, and what this would mean for what kind of tuition I have to pay. If it's the 40k+ euro or whether it's the free subsidized one (as I do meet the E.U. requirements). And also whether the schooling/GPA/MCAT/EC requirements are the same or different (i.e. more competitive if it's through CAO).
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When I look at the Atlantic bridge FAQ, there is a section addressing the E.U. fees. It says that students who do qualify should apply through their CAO program. http://www.atlanticbridge.com/medicine/faq/ it's the 9th question. It seems most people say you can only apply through CAO if you do high school in Ireland, but the abp seems to say otherwise, so I'm not sure which it is, and what this would mean for what kind of tuition I have to pay. If it's the 40k+ euro or whether it's the free subsidized one (as I do meet the E.U. requirements). And also whether the schooling/GPA/MCAT/EC requirements are the same or different (i.e. more competitive if it's through CAO).

 

Do you qualify for EU residence though? Haven't you been in Canada the last 3-5 years? 

 

http://www2.cao.ie/handbook/handbook/hb.pdf

 

Look at the handbook, it seems on page 21 it says you would have to apply direct to the medical schools themselves. 

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Do you qualify for EU residence though? Haven't you been in Canada the last 3-5 years? 

 

http://www2.cao.ie/handbook/handbook/hb.pdf

 

Look at the handbook, it seems on page 21 it says you would have to apply direct to the medical schools themselves.

 

No, I've lived in the E.U. for the last 3 years (3 year gap I mentioned in my resume).. Just came back to Canada a month ago, as well as also still having all my stuff still active there.

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I'm also thinking they might believe I'm trying to game the system (as to not pay tuition) if I apply with every post secondary Canadian, even though I meet their criteria of being E.U. and living there. I suspect they might not look too fondly on my application or something like that. In any case, if I go that route, will it be fine if I apply with the same credential as an ABP student (with MCAT/Canadian degree) but basically go through their CAO?

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I'm also thinking they might believe I'm trying to game the system (as to not pay tuition) if I apply with every post secondary Canadian, even though I meet their criteria of being E.U. and living there. I suspect they might not look too fondly on my application or something like that. In any case, if I go that route, will it be fine if I apply with the same credential as an ABP student (with MCAT/Canadian degree) but basically go through their CAO?

 

Hmm, not sure you might want to ask CAO or look through the handbook. It is in the link I posted above. 

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I'm also thinking they might believe I'm trying to game the system (as to not pay tuition) if I apply with every post secondary Canadian, even though I meet their criteria of being E.U. and living there. I suspect they might not look too fondly on my application or something like that. In any case, if I go that route, will it be fine if I apply with the same credential as an ABP student (with MCAT/Canadian degree) but basically go through their CAO?

 

My understanding is that you would need to write the GAMSAT in order to apply through CAO if you are applying to the 4 year graduate entry degrees. For these programs the schools want an equivalent to a 2.1 degree, I'm still trying to determine what it is, but it is likely up to each specific school to decide. If you have this equivalent, then you are ranked based on your GAMSAT score to see if you get in. When applying through CAO, all they look at is your total GAMSAT score, so ECs / GPA (once your degree is considered equivalent to a 2.1) are not considered at all.

 

The tuition is basically free only if you have never done any post secondary education at the same level as the degree you would be starting. Since the medical degree is a bachelors degree, and you have one already, you would have to pay around 15,000-17,000 euros in tuition a year.

 

Each school has their own policy as to whether you are considered an EU resident, and thus applicable for EU fees and applying through CAO, so your best bet is to contact the schools directly and see what they say.

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