Next Steps As A Reapplicant

[g4m3r2 11]

Hey everyone,

 

After applying to many Canadian and US schools as a Canadian (BC resident) this year, I am back at square one to map out my future plans.

 

Here are some options I have considered. Please correct if any of my pros/cons are wrong:

1.    Work in Yukon, NWT, or Nunavut for 2 years (assuming I find a job there), become in-province for Sask, Manitoba, Ontario, and Alberta, take MCAT 2015 and apply

2.    Go for a MSc/post-bac/second degree, increase my GPA (not guaranteed of course), apply

3.    US DO

a.     Pros: 70% match rate in US vs 50% match rate for IMGs

b.    Cons: no presence in Canada, tend to be primary care doctors (I am looking at neurology/psychiatry), cost, recommended to take both COMLEX and USMLE to be competitive for MD residencies, some people may look down upon DOs

4.    Duke-NUS

a.     Pros: Though not guaranteed, SG poses a higher chance of landing a residency in SG and transitioning into a PR/citizen. Also, SG is a great place to live

b.    Cons: Cost. Work-life balance seems to be poorer in SG than in Western counterparts. Higher cost of living with slightly lower wages for physicians

5.    Australia/Ireland

a.     Pros: would not mind living in these places

b.    Cons: no guarantees of practicing in respective countries as non-EU, non Australian citizen or in returning to Canada. Cost

6.    Caribbean

a.     Pros: Easier to practice in US vs Aus/Ireland? Not sure if true

b.    Cons: If no match in USA, then stuck in Caribbean. Cost

 

Here is my position with all the schools:

 

Waitlisted on: SUNY Stony Brook after interview, SUNY Upstate (yet to interview)

Still waiting from: UBC (rejected twice, waitlisted once so far in previous years. Finished interview this year), Wayne State, Kimmel,

Rejected from: Queen's, Sask, Boston, Dartmouth, George Washington, Case Western &Cleveland Clinic

Cannot apply to (due to low GPA OOP and/or new MCAT requirements): Western, Dalhousie, Calgary, Alberta

Did not apply to: Tulane, Oakland, Howard

 

Stats:
Full IB program grad
cGPA: 81% including summer courses, 80.4% without; aGPA (drop lowest 30 credits): 83% with 82% without; Prereq: 83%
(So around 3.7)
MCAT: 28 first, 34 the second (11VR/12PS/11BS)
Nonacademics from senior year of high school: Pharmacist since 2016 working in rural BC, 3 years in community pharmacy as an assistant, 1 month rotation in hospital under a pharmacist, 4 years volunteering at hospital, 3 years cadets -- co-led squadron band, playing in church band, martial arts for 11 years, president for a club x 2 years, vice president for student society. Toastmasters x 3 months. Duke of Edinburgh Award level gold, recognized provincially at a poster competition in senior year of high school.

Publications: 2 as second author
Volunteering at a crisis line 
One award 

 

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Mashmetoo 27]

Hey everyone,

 

After applying to many Canadian and US schools as a Canadian (BC resident) this year, I am back at square one to map out my future plans.

 

Here are some options I have considered. Please correct if any of my pros/cons are wrong:

1.    Work in Yukon, NWT, or Nunavut for 2 years (assuming I find a job there), become in-province for Sask, Manitoba, Ontario, and Alberta, take MCAT 2015 and apply

2.    Go for a MSc/post-bac/second degree, increase my GPA (not guaranteed of course), apply

3.    US DO

a.     Pros: 70% match rate in US vs 50% match rate for IMGs

b.    Cons: no presence in Canada, tend to be primary care doctors (I am looking at neurology/psychiatry), cost, recommended to take both COMLEX and USMLE to be competitive for MD residencies, some people may look down upon DOs

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

Regarding your comment on US DOs

 

It's now a 80% match rate in the US in 2016, not 70%

Tend to be primary care also is not true. We have psychiatrists, IM, OBGYN, ER, FM, even anesthesiology working in Canada as of 2017.

In general, it's about how competitive you are as a med student (board scores, class rank etc) than whether you are a MD or DO when it comes to getting into specialty programs.

Psychiatry is not competitive, you don't need USMLE for that.

Cost will be no more than what would have cost you had you gotten into any other MD school in the US.

Regarding possibly being looked down upon as a DO, that is a myth that basically only concerns premeds. Professionally, I have never encountered it, nor have my colleagues who are also DOs. None of my patients have questioned it.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Mashmetoo

[helicase 115]

Wait but why do you think you'll be a reapplicant with all those interviews  

[g4m3r2 11]

Wait but why do you think you'll be a reapplicant with all those interviews

This was my fourth interview at UBC.... it's getting hard to stay optimistic just based on past results

[End Poverty 153]

I can't even imagine how difficult it is to receive 4 interview invitations with no admission offers.

 

I believe you have a very good chance in terms of receiving offer(s) here in Canada. I know that is very difficult and is very tough to persevere in the process, however, I feel that it usually pays off. Instead, of going to Caribbean or Ireland, look into the US. You may also work on improving your interview performance, interviews at UBC are worth a significant proportion of post MMI ranking.

 

Best of Luck

[TechToMD 42]

Hearing that you have had 4 interviews and no offers is tough, and I feel for you. I think honestly the most high yield thing you can do is interview practice/preparation, I am sure there are many successful applicants on this forum that would be willing to help you with that.

IMO there's no point working on the pre-interview stuff (Masters, GPA, MCAT, moving to the territories, etc.) because you've already got that covered. All you need now is a solid interview plan.

[FifthCycle 20]

Why no application to UofT? cGPA? 

[g4m3r2 11]

Why no application to UofT? cGPA? 

Just thought that I'd have no chance with my GPA. cGPA is like 3.7 or 81%.

[g4m3r2 11]

Bump

[MD2015:) 44]

working up north as a pharmacist for 2 years would be a really interesting experience (and good to talk about during interviews) and your marks would be good enough for in-province applications. In the meanwhile you could do some more interview practice prep (maybe you are not coming across well in the interviews - you could be coming across as shy, not confident, cold, or something else depending on how you are when you are nervous). Since you are able to get interviews in Canada I would just continue to try in Canada and maybe the US. Don't bother with Carribean, Australia etc since you can get canadian interviews already. Working in the territories for 1-2 years then getting into BC or one of the other provinces after getting home province status may get you into residency faster than the caribbean route (and with much much much less debt)

[JohnGrisham 1,693]

With all those Canadian and USMD interviews this year, I hope you get in

 

My vote is to reapply, and continue to work rurally or in NWT while reapplying. No need to go outside of Canada or USMD given it would seem the interview, or your letters of rec or something else - perhaps simply being unlucky are not allowing you to transition to full acceptance

 

Hard to jeep hope but if my reading is right you have 1 waitlist after interview, and 5 other schools you interviewed with but are waiting on. That is a very good number. If for some reason it doesn't work out this year, vigorously ask them for advice(particularly USMDs) and reapply with including Oakland and other USMDs that take Canadians like Hawaii etc.

 

Fingers crossed. But working for a while as a pharmacist(assuming your a new grad) can be a nice way to make good money, keep improving your CV and take a mental break from stressing about med apps. Youll get in eventually and when you do, make sure you kept your pharmacy knowledge current..because it gives you a huge advantage. Pharmacists are almost always at the top of the class.

[JohnGrisham 1,693]

Can you clarify. Have you interviewed at ubc 4 times or simply applied 4 times with first two being preinterview rejections?

[g4m3r2 11]

Oh shoot sorry everyone I think I wasn't really clear:

 

I only got an interview from UBC and this is my fourth year getting an interview and being rejected x 2 and waitlisted then rejected x 1 afterwards. Other schools that say waiting from (eg. McMaster, Kimmel, Wayne) I am waiting to hear back for an interview

[helicase 115]

Oh shoot sorry everyone I think I wasn't really clear:

 

I only got an interview from UBC and this is my fourth year getting an interview and being rejected x 2 and waitlisted then rejected x 1 afterwards. Other schools that say waiting from (eg. McMaster, Kimmel, Wayne) I am waiting to hear back for an interview

 

Oh I see- doesn't UBC give feedback on your interview like below average/average/above average? What kind of feedback have you been getting?

[g4m3r2 11]

Oh I see- doesn't UBC give feedback on your interview like below average/average/above average? What kind of feedback have you been getting?

Average x 2 years leading to rejection. Below average for one year, but led to waitlist strangely...

[helicase 115]

Average x 2 years leading to rejection. Below average for one year, but led to waitlist strangely...

 

How did you prepare for interviews? How did you feel about them coming out? As others have said this seems to be the issue- you should definitely be devoting time to interview prep as opposed to working on pre-interview stuff. 

[JohnGrisham 1,693]

How did you prepare for interviews? How did you feel about them coming out? As others have said this seems to be the issue- you should definitely be devoting time to interview prep as opposed to working on pre-interview stuff. 

The other factor is OP is on the lower end of GPA, it takes alot of luck to get in with a low 80s gpa. So even though you make it to the interview stage, there is no guarantee of acceptance.  Definitely need to strive for at least average or above average on the interview. And just keep trying, it's a numbers game unfortunately.

[Organic Chemistry 12]

If you like research (judged by your 2 pubs you prob do), then I would go for a MSc. If you have a job you are passionate about lined up, then I would work. 

[g4m3r2 11]

Updated the schools I am waiting to hear back from. The Excel file I used to keep track of the schools wasn't quite up to date.

 

So just waiting from UBC (after interview), Kimmel and Wayne State (both pre-interview).

 

Still waitlisted from Stony Brook post interview, and SUNY pre-interview

How did you prepare for interviews? How did you feel about them coming out? As others have said this seems to be the issue- you should definitely be devoting time to interview prep as opposed to working on pre-interview stuff. 

 

I read about medical ethics (CMJ, Doing Right), healthcare issues (White Coat Black Art, Canadian Health Policy in the News, books by Dr. Atul Gawande, In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Dr. Mate), First Nations issues, and determinants of health (took a course). Also prepped in groups at UBC. Got like 3 sessions from friends in medicine about the interview.

 

Felt okay after each time, but found that feelings do not accurately predict performance.  

 

The other factor is OP is on the lower end of GPA, it takes alot of luck to get in with a low 80s gpa. So even though you make it to the interview stage, there is no guarantee of acceptance.  Definitely need to strive for at least average or above average on the interview. And just keep trying, it's a numbers game unfortunately.

 

If you like research (judged by your 2 pubs you prob do), then I would go for a MSc. If you have a job you are passionate about lined up, then I would work. 

 

Yep, MSc to increase GPA is something I've considered. I am trying to weigh how much the 2 years of GPA will boost my 3-4 years of crummy GPAs as well as the fact that doing an MSc doesn't necessarily guarantee acceptance vs just going to international schools. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[helicase 115]

 

Felt okay after each time, but found that feelings do not accurately predict performance.  

 

 

 

What do others have to say about your performance? I just wonder whether you had (objective) people tell you objectively how your answers come across?

[Done 3]

Go to international school, pay lots, do GP internship in Winnipeg, then go to whereverin Canada you want to practice.

NYU takes money if that is doable in terms of $$$.......

If you do not want to keep trying in Canada or US.....do the above.

[Torntoiletpaper 28]

Updated the schools I am waiting to hear back from. The Excel file I used to keep track of the schools wasn't quite up to date.

 

So just waiting from UBC (after interview), Kimmel and Wayne State (both pre-interview).

 

Still waitlisted from Stony Brook post interview, and SUNY pre-interview

 

I read about medical ethics (CMJ, Doing Right), healthcare issues (White Coat Black Art, Canadian Health Policy in the News, books by Dr. Atul Gawande, In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Dr. Mate), First Nations issues, and determinants of health (took a course). Also prepped in groups at UBC. Got like 3 sessions from friends in medicine about the interview.

 

Felt okay after each time, but found that feelings do not accurately predict performance.  

 

 

 

Yep, MSc to increase GPA is something I've considered. I am trying to weigh how much the 2 years of GPA will boost my 3-4 years of crummy GPAs as well as the fact that doing an MSc doesn't necessarily guarantee acceptance vs just going to international schools. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

It's odd that you've gotten interviews so many times, but haven't managed to be accepted. I echo the sentiments of the other people and suggest focusing on your interview. I can only think of two reasons that you haven't passed the interview stage. 

 

1) There are red flags with your interview/application. I believe the best way to flush out red flags is getting another perspective. Do you come across as contentious rather than composed? Do you seem disingenuous when you talk?   

 

2) You haven't been preparing correctly/adequately. You said you read up on your medical ethics. However, I personally think that the UBC MMI is moving away from those scenarios because they do not show you as a person (as their website states). It would be more useful to prepare in a generalized sense on the presentation and content of your answers. 

 

Hope that helps.