How does CaRMS work?

[MHCClassII]

Related to the title- wondering when exactly are CaRMs applications due, i.e. is it beginning of 4th year, so do you have to have a good application prepped by the end of 3rd year summer?

Also, are there any essay/personal statements involved? How many LORs do you need? Do LORs from basic science faculty (who are not MDs) hold any weight? (if the research is related to the field), or should the research be with clinical staff who can speak to both?

I had heard that any research is good, or at least that there isn't anything wrong with research in an unrelated field, but after reading Robert Chu's story-now I'm wondering if that is entirely true. Say I decide to apply for a surgical specialty, but all my research before was in radiology, how is that looked at?

Lastly- if you want to aim for something competitive, maybe a surgical subspeciality/rads/etc., when is the latest in a 4 year program should you have your specialty decided?

Thanks.

[ralk]

Please check the CaRMS website for timelines, they spell it out in full detail.

Each program sets their own application requirements. Generally a personal statement is involved. Usually the number of LORs in 3, which in most cases should all be from clinicians.

No research is hurtful, even in a completely separate field. Whether it's meaningfully helpful depends on the program, but it should never be a negative. Applicants who clearly signaled an interest in a different field early on and changed directions usually need to explain the shift, but it's a common occurrence for applicants and not treated negatively in the vast, vast majority of cases. Please do not let Robert Chu's story scare you in this regard - it's a single anecdote from a unique situation for which we don't know all the details. People do research in fields different from where they end up applying all the time, it's not an impediment to matching.

Ideally you should know before the bulk of elective applications are due, or at least before the pre-CaRMS electives are completed. For some of the really competitive/unique ones (EM, Derm, Plastics, Ophtho) a little extra lead time is undoubtedly beneficial to develop ECs and contacts, but not strictly speaking necessary. In effect, mid-way through 3rd year is a good time to have your specialty choice selected or at least narrowed down to a very short list.

[Monkey D. Luffy]

38 minutes ago, 1997 said:

Sorry for derailing the thread, but do you know why EM is competitive? It looks like FM but a little more intense and without the continuity of care... Yet FM is known as the least competitive specialty.

It is definitely more intense, but a lot of people prefer working in high acuity situations. It is also done in shift work, and you end up working fewer hours per month than most FM doctors. You are also working in the ED as opposed to your own clinic so you don't have to worry about office, supplies, staff, overheads, etc.

You can still work in the ED if you do FM but this is only in rural areas unless you get the +1, which is much more competitive than the Royal College EM. When looking at competitiveness, you have to also consider that there are way more spots in FM than EM.

They are honestly pretty different specialties if you look at office based FM vs. EM but FM does give you the flexibility to work as an EM doctor if you really want so in a lot of ways it's a good back up for people who want to do EM.

[ralk]

5 hours ago, 1997 said:

Sorry for derailing the thread, but do you know why EM is competitive? It looks like FM but a little more intense and without the continuity of care... Yet FM is known as the least competitive specialty.

EM pays well, has good hours (if you can handle shift work), a great job market, lots of variety in work and significant acuity. Each of these factors individually tend to attract people to the specialty and EM has them all. FM has lower pay and much less acuity - that alone makes it less attractive for a lot of people.

Keep in mind that competitiveness factors in not just the interest from medical students but the number of residency spots. More people choose to go into FM than any other specialty, there's just far more FM residency spots than there is interest. EM is pursued by a much smaller number of people, but has far fewer residency positions than there are people interested in the specialty.

[LittleDaisy]

2 hours ago, ralk said:

EM pays well, has good hours (if you can handle shift work), a great job market, lots of variety in work and significant acuity. Each of these factors individually tend to attract people to the specialty and EM has them all. FM has lower pay and much less acuity - that alone makes it less attractive for a lot of people.

Keep in mind that competitiveness factors in not just the interest from medical students but the number of residency spots. More people choose to go into FM than any other specialty, there's just far more FM residency spots than there is interest. EM is pursued by a much smaller number of people, but has far fewer residency positions than there are people interested in the specialty.

I believe that the FM-trained ER docs and FRCPC ER docs are paid around the same, at least in Ontario.

Although the +1 in ER is very competitive, perhaps even more than FRCPC-ER .

[bearded frog]

The advantage of the +1 is that you can apply to it multiple times and its not just (basically) a one time shot like carms.