Extracurriculars

[BiscuitBoy]

There are a lot of opportunities as a first year medical student to be involved in student groups, etc. Just wondering, how valuable are ECs when it comes to matching to a competitive specialty for CARMS?

If not ECs I am relatively confused how without academic assessment (i.e. grades) programs differentiate applicants? Are ECs then important?

[ralk]

ECs don't have much direct value to CaRMS matching. They're considered, and it's important to show you've done something in medical school besides simply showing up and doing the bare minimum, but since most people have some ECs and very few are meaningful or overly impressive to programs, it's unlikely to move the needle much in convincing a program to take you.

ECs can help though in overall career development and determining your path through medicine. They can help you get contacts which do become useful for CaRMS. They let you explore various specialties and aspects to working in medicine that can clarify what your goals are. They can also help improve your knowledge base and functional abilities for when clerkship comes around. So, while you shouldn't be fighting hard for opportunities just to make your CV look better, it's definitely worthwhile to pick up some activities which hold some interest and have personal value to your potential career. Basically, whatever you do, do it for yourself.

When it comes to programs differentiating applicants, the main consideration is clinical performance, either directly through electives, core rotations and (rarely) observerships, or indirectly through LORs. Research can matter, depending on the program, but often doesn't make much of a difference. As a pre-clerk, since there are no grades and no clinical opportunities, the ECs and research become really the only ways to directly improve your CaRMS application, even though neither is going to make a huge difference directly. Alternatively and additionally, you can be taking the extra time to improve your likely performance in a clinical setting. Studying for higher grades doesn't matter, but studying to improve your clinical performance certainly can.

[Bambi]

Clinical performance, LORs and soft skills are what is important for CaRMS, especially face time, so the docs get to know you as a collaborative, enthusiastic, hard worker whom they will value for x years in the future. Knowing you on paper gives no insight. It is not uncommon for there to be a short list before you even walk in for your interview. ECs play virtually no role in the selection process. In undergrad, I had many activities, however, in med school, there was so very little time to pursue my interests and I had to be very selective in reducing my activities to a mere fraction of what they were in the past. And I did them for my own pleasure, to reduce my stress level and not for any other motive.

[hopefulgirl123]

Any thoughts on applicants with little ECs and research? For example, if I were to start a family and takes too much of my time in order to realistically do ECs and research in addition to school. How would I compare to someone who has done some ECs and research?

Would I still be considered 'competitive' if I had good clinical performane, LORs and soft skills?

Thanks~!!!  

[rogerroger]

Here is my perspective from the other side of the CaRMS file review curtain.

Importance before interviews from most to least:

electives at program applying > LOR > electives in speciality > published research in speciality > other electives > published research in non-speciality > EC's in med school > grad school stuff > anything else before med school > other misc. interests etc. 

 

How important this is depends on your desired speciality and program. Keep in mind my experience is with a program that accepts a handful of people from over a hundred apps. So adjust what I'm saying to your situation.

Want one of the top 5 competitive specialities expect many many people to have apps strong in the top most important things listed above. 

Somewhat the same in a top desired program in most specialities of average competitiveness. 

For those interested in a less competitive speciality and / or flexible in program choice - just appear to be a normal human in person on electives. The listing above is much less important. 

[Bambi]

6 hours ago, hopefulgirl123 said:

Any thoughts on applicants with little ECs and research? For example, if I were to start a family and takes too much of my time in order to realistically do ECs and research in addition to school. How would I compare to someone who has done some ECs and research?

Would I still be considered 'competitive' if I had good clinical performane, LORs and soft skills?

Thanks~!!!  

I don't think it matters. I had 1 publication during med school and it made absolutely no difference whether I had this publication or not in my competitive surgical specialty selection. Nor were ECs a consideration. I was too busy studying in med school to have ECs, I cut back considerably from undergrad days. And having a family explains it all. With good clinical performance, LORs, soft skills and face time where you apply, you are golden! 

[hopefulgirl123]

10 hours ago, Bambi said:

I don't think it matters. I had 1 publication during med school and it made absolutely no difference whether I had this publication or not in my competitive surgical specialty selection. Nor were ECs a consideration. I was too busy studying in med school to have ECs, I cut back considerably from undergrad days. And having a family explains it all. With good clinical performance, LORs, soft skills and face time where you apply, you are golden! 

I definitely relate in the part about cutting back considerably compared to undergrad days. Perhaps this is why it has been frustrating me. I compare my current time for activities back to my time in undergrad and I find myself feeling pressed for time to do much because of all the studying. 

How did you succeed in applying for your surgical specialty? What do you think had the most impact on your application?

[Bambi]

I agree totally with what you write, all I did was study. My success was a combination of luck & my soft soft skills. Nothing else.

[rogerroger]

 

Research won't make or break you IMHO. Clinical skills and personality come first.

But if all other things are equal, being skilled in research (something a single publication in a non-related field probably won't reveal), certainly won't hurt you. 

I think research in med school is best viewed as a strong EC.