Trent is literally scamming parents

[RRRAAAWWW]

https://www.trentu.ca/futurestudents/degree/medical-professional-stream?target=undergraduate

 

Thoughts, feelings? 

 

[JohnGrisham]

It's not really a scam. They dont once gaurantee admittance. Sure maybe a bit misleading, but i'd argue having a small program that is dinstinctly trying to help you get into a program, and providing insight/tips along the way - is an advantage in itself.  No different than how niche programs like pharmacology and physiology at UBC have high rates of admittance into Medicine/dent/etc. 

[Snowmen]

5 hours ago, JohnGrisham said:

It's not really a scam. They dont once gaurantee admittance. Sure maybe a bit misleading, but i'd argue having a small program that is dinstinctly trying to help you get into a program, and providing insight/tips along the way - is an advantage in itself.  No different than how niche programs like pharmacology and physiology at UBC have high rates of admittance into Medicine/dent/etc. 

I agree. I don't see how this is a scam and if they actually offer interview prep, MCAT prep and research as part of the program itself, their claim of offering all-around preparation for admission to med school is quite justified in my opinion.

Now, as JohnGrisham mentioned, if they did guarantee admission or whatnot, that would be a different story.

[bearded frog]

Yeah health sciences at Mac does basically the same thing.

[fremulon]

Truly the first of a kind PreMed program, unlike how U of T Life Sci and Mac Health Sci and Western Med Sci masks their PreMed program under a shell of a degree that is effectively useless on its own without an accompanying MD. It's a shame it's just a gimmick by Trent trying to attract STEM talent that would otherwise go to Toronto Mac and Western. It's a shame that it's at a school with no medical school and no teaching hospital.

Speaking of scams, I'd say Western putting the world MEDICAL in Bachelor of Medical Sciences and duping naive Grade 12s and their even more naive parents into enrolling is a greater scam. 

[RRRAAAWWW]

3 hours ago, celciuszoo said:

Truly the first of a kind PreMed program, unlike how U of T Life Sci and Mac Health Sci and Western Med Sci masks their PreMed program under a shell of a degree that is effectively useless on its own without an accompanying MD. It's a shame it's just a gimmick by Trent trying to attract STEM talent that would otherwise go to Toronto Mac and Western. It's a shame that it's at a school with no medical school and no teaching hospital.

Speaking of scams, I'd say Western putting the world MEDICAL in Bachelor of Medical Sciences and duping naive Grade 12s and their even more naive parents into enrolling is a greater scam. 

Right i may have been a  bit heavy handed. It is definitely misleading though

[fremulon]

@RRRAAAWWW No misleading for sure. That's for bringing this to our attention. With the 5% or single digit acceptance rate only getting into QuARMS or Mac Health Sci will significantly lift your chances if you're not aboriginal/rural/SWOMEN/not from Ontario/French speaking, not this bs program that won't get you a job or a masters or anything after if you don't get into professional school

[Brain101]

I go to Trent, and even though I'm not in the Pre-med program, it's really good, they aren't guaranteeing admittance but they are improving your chances, and there are other ways to get the advantages even if you aren't in the program like me. I keep constant contact with the program coordinator, and I ask for guidance and advice, I also hang out with student in the program so I am up to date on opportunities. The only specialty they get compared to any other students is like having a special counsellor who they have to meet with every semester to stay on track. Every thing else like the MCAT prep, volunteering/research opportunities are open to all students at Trent. It's not a sham!!!

[Arztin]

Doesn't seem to be a scam, but a way to toot their horns. If they actually help you with the MCAT, that might be not bad.

I have to admit, I chuckled at this line:

Program Highlights:

• CPR training and certification

[JohnGrisham]

2 hours ago, celciuszoo said:

Truly the first of a kind PreMed program, unlike how U of T Life Sci and Mac Health Sci and Western Med Sci masks their PreMed program under a shell of a degree that is effectively useless on its own without an accompanying MD. It's a shame it's just a gimmick by Trent trying to attract STEM talent that would otherwise go to Toronto Mac and Western. It's a shame that it's at a school with no medical school and no teaching hospital.

Speaking of scams, I'd say Western putting the world MEDICAL in Bachelor of Medical Sciences and duping naive Grade 12s and their even more naive parents into enrolling is a greater scam. 

How does any of that matter? "attract STEM talent" - thats pretty laughable, most that enter undergraduate stem arent anything special. And their prospects arent suddenly going to decrease drastically with trent...b/c the ones that are "true" talent would prosper anyways OR not even go to that school in the first place.  Having a medical school and teaching hospital again is pretty irrelevant, if you want to seek out research you can do so.

[JohnGrisham]

http://selkirk.ca/program/rural-pre-medicine

Here is another similar program, again, sure its a bit misleading, but honestly probably doesnt make or break the difference. In some ways motivated people in small programs geared towards professiona programs is probably not a bad thing. 

Also i dont see how a undergrad degree from these schools are any different for the vast majority at UofT or other programs. A Bsc from big schools is just as equally useless in many aspects if you dont get into professional school if that was your primary goal. 

[indefatigable]

It's fairly agressive marketing for a program with essentially no track record.  The career paths are even narrower than Mac Health Sci which includes paramedic, continuing education,.. as established options, despite the fact that Health Sci has a very strong record of MD success.  OTOH they're trying to show that a small university can compete with larger establishments when it comes to preparing students and I think that there's some positives there (test preparation, meeting physicians, interview prep,..).  I know of other small schools trying to develop niche programs for premeds and the next few years will tell whether this one falls flat or rises to join the ranks of Mac Health Sci.  

STEM students, especially engineering, often went to Waterloo with its >90-5% admission averages in my time (like Mac Health Sci today).  Here the average for admission is quite a bit lower (80%).

[la marzocco]

I feel like this whole "pre-med" program at Trent is largely motivated by their collaboration with St. George's University (SGU): 

https://www.trentu.ca/premedicalstudies/stgeorges

This is my first time seeing this.. Trent and SGU basically cross-selling/cross-promoting. They do not speak of the dangers of going abroad for medical school and the risks associated with CARMS in terms of matching prospects of being an IMG. 

High school students need to be better informed about the pros and cons of these programs - it is uncomfortable where this "pathway" is presented in the most favourable light.

[indefatigable]

5 hours ago, qnzjlo said:

I feel like this whole "pre-med" program at Trent is largely motivated by their collaboration with St. George's University (SGU): 

https://www.trentu.ca/premedicalstudies/stgeorges

This is my first time seeing this.. Trent and SGU basically cross-selling/cross-promoting. They do not speak of the dangers of going abroad for medical school and the risks associated with CARMS in terms of matching prospects of being an IMG. 

High school students need to be better informed about the pros and cons of these programs - it is uncomfortable where this "pathway" is presented in the most favourable light.

That's really new information that makes everything fit into place.  I agree that this is irresponsible on behalf of Trent - it's not going to get any better for IMGs.  The whole site leading with stethoscope with career paths like Surgeon is just sad.

[m_jacob_45]

I don't think its a scam at all. Its an extremely med- tailored undergrad degree essentially (with the built in research experience and mcat studying). Not saying I would advise high school graduates to choose it over other programs, but I don't think its misleading since it does not guarantee getting into med school. Its kind of similar to Mac health sci. 

[la marzocco]

IMO, although it is not a scam, it still does not sit right with me. I feel it is irresponsible marketing.

[goleafsgochris]

1 hour ago, m_jacob_45 said:

I don't think its a scam at all. Its an extremely med- tailored undergrad degree essentially (with the built in research experience and mcat studying). Not saying I would advise high school graduates to choose it over other programs, but I don't think its misleading since it does not guarantee getting into med school. Its kind of similar to Mac health sci. 

I'm pretty sure one of the major benefits of Mac health sci tho is that almost everyone gets higher grades, and therefore it also helps with the GPA aspect of med school.  In fact realistically--this is the main reason to do mac health sci

Therefore if the trent program doesn't have similar grade inflation, its literally nothing like mac health sci in terms of helping with med school admission

 

 

[nice]

.

[bearded frog]

On 11/25/2017 at 3:55 PM, goleafsgochris said:

Therefore if the trent program doesn't have similar grade inflation, its literally nothing like mac health sci in terms of helping with med school admission

What did mac health sci do to you?

[Ginsy]

I wouldn't necessarily say this is a "scam", just very misleading. It seems to be very similar marketing to the medical science program at Western. Throw the word medicine in there and students will feel like they've already gotten in.. Though, I would say that this is not entirely cool. Due to the name of the program, I think expectations for students in it program are likely be extremely high, and if students don't get the outcome they want or expect after graduation they may be very disappointed. (To be fair, that goes for a lot of other programs though and is not entirely specific to this one.)

[indefatigable]

.

[insomnias]

15 minutes ago, calcan said:

There's nothing preventing anyone from learning French or moving to a province with lower admission stats.  It might take a few years, but it's one way to improve chances.  These communities are underserved, unlike the GTA and various regions in Ontario.  So without favorables admission policies or quotas, the communities could have less access to quality health care, as mentioned in another thread.  It always strikes me how many francophones are nearly perfectly bilingual, yet how few anglophones.  Yes there are asymmetries in culture and exposure, but the point is it can be done.  

After spending last year in France, I considered applying to French (QC, Ottawa/FR and French FR) schools, but who wants to be graded in their second language anyways lol. The type of person who'll move to another province/learn another language just to get into med is unlikely to be the kind of person hoping to work in those underserved communities

[la marzocco]

1 hour ago, calcan said:

It always strikes me how many francophones are nearly perfectly bilingual, yet how few anglophones.  Yes there are asymmetries in culture and exposure, but the point is it can be done.  

Very true.

[indefatigable]

On November 27, 2017 at 11:24 AM, insomnias said:

After spending last year in France, I considered applying to French (QC, Ottawa/FR and French FR) schools, but who wants to be graded in their second language anyways lol. The type of person who'll move to another province/learn another language just to get into med is unlikely to be the kind of person hoping to work in those underserved communities

The French Can schools are moving to P/F - Sherbrooke is phasing out grades and Laval I think is considering that (Ottawa has been P/F for a while).  The FR system is quite a bit different and I'm not sure it's directly comparable.  NOSM looks at rural context that way, but I've seen some powerful testimonials on this site that suggest that after a few years, people can become fairly committed to an area or community.  The future is always hard to predict anyways.  I personally have gone through being graded in a second language and it's been a lesson in persistance and being humble.  It's certainly made me more empathetic towards the additional challenges people might face in their lives.  But regardless of grades, the question may be whether one can learn as effectively in a second language environment vs the additional gain of having further future options, due to additional language fluency.  It's probably a bit of an open question and depends on individual preferences and constraints and most importantly second language ability.  I had to greatly improve my second language skills, yet for others this may not (and should not) be the case.    

[Pippa756]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:04 AM, distributed_healthcare said:

I don't think it's really a scam, but I don't think this type of thing should be a University program on its own. It should be a supplement to a normal degree program 

Agreed.