program ranks lists???

[liammo29]

Any idea when program rank lists are submitted? Does the PD have final say? Is it sent directly to CaRMS or would PGME get it as well?

 

Thanks!

[Bluberblubo]

1 hour ago, liammo29 said:

Any idea when program rank lists are submitted?

Here's a site with some information: https://www.carms.ca/en/

On the left there's a section that says "Match Timelines" and there are some dates there. 

February 7, 2018 at 14:00 ET
Deadline: submission of programs rank order lists

1 hour ago, liammo29 said:

Does the PD have final say?

Depends on the school. I'm pretty sure that each school has a system for scoring and ranking applicants, but the PD can 'veto' certain candidates or really push to have others join the program. So in a way I guess they do, but it's probably school dependent. 

1 hour ago, liammo29 said:

Is it sent directly to CaRMS or would PGME get it as well?

ROL goes to CaRMS. I'm pretty sure the only people who know it are the PD and anyone who the PD wants to know i.e. other staff involved in the process and some senior residents. I would be very very surprised if PGME gets it as well. I heard rumours that if someone is unmatched CaRMS will let the PGME of a school know who the students are, but I really don't think they see the ROL. I could be wrong tho

[liammo29]

Thanks, just found this link:

https://www.carms.ca/en/match-process/match-timelines/pgme-offices/

It appears PGME does view the list and that the final list isn't until the 15th of Feb.

[MDLaval]

13 hours ago, liammo29 said:

Thanks, just found this link:

https://www.carms.ca/en/match-process/match-timelines/pgme-offices/

It appears PGME does view the list and that the final list isn't until the 15th of Feb.

It clearly says:

"February 7, 2018 at 14:00 ET

DEADLINE: program rank order list

Programs must submit their rank order list through CaRMS Online by 14:00 ET. If programs do not submit by today, PGME offices can submit on their behalf."

 

However, if you're talking about applicant's ROL, then yes the final list must be submitted at the latest on February 15th  at 14h00.

And the "IF" regarding PGME means only that IF programs do not submit their list, PGME "CAN" submit the list (which is quite different from should/must/have to and doesn't equal to say that PGME have access to programs list, unless programs fail to submit it or choose to ask PGME to do it on the program's behalf).

 

[Organomegaly]

I guess I'm confused of the difference between "program" and "PGME office". I thought those were one and the same, to be honest. It says the PGME has to approve the ROL and can submit that on the 15th as well. So it's not super clear when it's really due and what those deadlines mean practically 

[ralk]

14 minutes ago, Organomegaly said:

I guess I'm confused of the difference between "program" and "PGME office". I thought those were one and the same, to be honest. It says the PGME has to approve the ROL and can submit that on the 15th as well. So it's not super clear when it's really due and what those deadlines mean practically 

PGME offices are kind of the umbrella groups over all the programs at a particular school. So a Plastics residency program and IM program at the same school would of course be run by different people, but the PGME office for that school would have some degree of oversight over both those programs.

The role of who does what with rank lists, and who gets final say, will vary greatly depending on the program. I don't believe PGME offices have too much say in these for any program, especially in the first iteration. PDs typically have ultimate responsibility for ROLs, but their final contribution to that ROL can be vastly different. I've heard of some PDs essentially having near-complete authority to set the ROL as they'd like (though usually drawing on their colleagues' and residents' input), to having virtually none and having the ROL set by an algorithm based largely or entirely on others' inputs (something like this is probably necessary in larger programs, including most FM programs, where there are far too many applicants for a single PD to make any real judgments on the candidates).