References

[Rahvin13]

What do you guys think about the overall use or need for letters of reference in applications? Do you think most schools take really any serious value in LORs at all? I believe from what I've read here that a lot of schools just grade references on a P/F basis. Basically what I'm saying is that I doubt that any significant number of applicants are rejected based on LORs, and question the accuracy of LORs for determining an applicants work ethic and characteristics. You aren't going to ask for a reference from someone you don't have a good relationship with or who you have upset in some way through your attitude and/or performance so the schools aren't going to see that anyway. And I highly doubt LORs would identify someone who has core issues relating to compassion or empathy either., as those individuals are often experts at disguising such things. And how well do people who write these references actually know YOU as opposed to knowing your work or research? There are plenty of people who are capable of "great" work who are awful human beings. Opinions? I do know that some schools (Dal for sure) have completely done away with LORs and no longer require them for application.

[Bambi]

Where required, at a minimum, they will be treated as a red flag if anything untoward is written. The devil of the application is in the details, and all aspects should be treated seriously or potentially an applicant can suffer the consequences. Suffice to say that where required, don't ignore it and it is an error to use anybody whom the applicant does not truly trust.

[Organomegaly]

U of T medical school weighs the reference letters significantly actually (21% of the score as per a publication I read a few years ago)

McMaster and Ottawa use them on a Pass/Fail basis

Unsure about Queen's or Western

 

For residency, LORs are a critical aspect of the application process. 

[Rahvin13]

2 hours ago, Bambi said:

Where required, at a minimum, they will be treated as a red flag if anything untoward is written. The devil of the application is in the details, and all aspects should be treated seriously or potentially an applicant can suffer the consequences. Suffice to say that where required, don;t ignore it and it is an error to use anybody whom the applicant does not truly trust.

Oh I agree. It would be interesting to see how many otherwise competitive applications are rejected on the basis of LORs. How often does it actually happen that people write bad things on the LOR I wonder. I feel like people would just say no to writing it in the 1st place.

[Rahvin13]

2 hours ago, Organomegaly said:

U of T medical school weighs the reference letters significantly actually (21% of the score as per a publication I read a few years ago)

McMaster and Ottawa use them on a Pass/Fail basis

Unsure about Queen's or Western

 

For residency, LORs are a critical aspect of the application process. 

Interesting about UofT. That seems like the peak of subjectivity to me though and another example of how admission favours the privileged as a whole and is more challenging for people with low SES who have possibly less opportunity to find people who have experience writing LORs.

There is obviously some discord between schools on how they are assessed but I guess that’s the same for almost all aspects of applications.

I definitely get why they are an important point of residency apps as I’m assuming they are more related to the actual practice of medicine in that sense.

[frenchpress]

3 hours ago, Rahvin13 said:

Oh I agree. It would be interesting to see how many otherwise competitive applications are rejected on the basis of LORs. How often does it actually happen that people write bad things on the LOR I wonder. I feel like people would just say no to writing it in the 1st place.

I have never written a truly bad reference, but I have written quite a few very mediocre references.

For academic references, most instructors are very up front with students when they’re not able to write them a strong reference because they had never talked with them or come to office hours, and therefore the prof doesn’t know anything about them at all. Lots of students are in this boat, because they feel they cannot approach or get to know their profs.

But many in this situation ask their profs to write the reference anyways, often because they feel it’s their best option. There’s not a lot you can write in a letter for someone like that except a name, grade and rank in the class, and ‘I don’t know’ for many of the form questions. So I don’t know if adcoms would consider that a ‘bad reference’, but it’s very different from a good reference.

[nice]

.