Taking 1st year courses in 4th year

[neoteny]

How bad does it look if you take a 1st year course (1 FCE) in your 4th yr?

 

I'm considering it for my distribution requirement (I'm interested in Eco, but I need to complete the first year pre-req before I can do any of the higher level eco courses).

 

My plan was to otherwise take 4th yr courses, and have 1 first year course...but I'm not sure if this is such a good idea....

 

Thoughts?

[claire_tea]

I don't have an answer to your question, but I am curious about this as well. From what I understand GPA trumps everything, so I was planning on taking 1st/2nd year classes during my 4th and 5th year as well (for ease and to fulfill breadth requirements).

 

I hope someone can provide insight

[neoteny]

med/dental schools generally look down upon this. i suppose one 1st year half-credit could be ok, but try to avoid it as much as possible. med schools know that people do it to boost marks which is why they don't like it. in fact many schools have a requirement or recommendation that most of your courses should correspond to the year you are in (eg. western: 3rd year students = majority of the classes should be 3rd year, and so on, and UT also recommends something similar)

 

so if you can avoid it, then don't take it

 

If majority of your courses are 4th yr (ie. 4/5 credits) would it still be a black mark on your app if you take a 1st yr course in 4th yr?

 

EDIT:

 

I found this under the Miscellaneous FAQ section:

 

Q: How will it affect my application if I take courses in the wrong year? For example, what if I take first year courses in fourth year?

 

A: It depends on how many courses and what school you are applying to. In general, as long as you're following the requirements of your school and heading towards a degree, you'll be okay. That is, if you take a couple of lower-year courses because they're interesting and that's where they end up fitting in, you normally don't have to worry. If you're planning to pad your fourth year schedule with only easy first year courses to try to raise your GPA, you probably want to very carefully read through the admission requirements of schools you're going to apply to.

 

Details:

 

U of Toronto says: Students in the third or fourth year of undergraduate work should note that, while no specific program of study is required, academic coherence is expected. Students should also note that the level of courses should correspond to the “year” of their program. For example, a student who applies for admission to the Faculty of Medicine while registered in the third year of his or her undergraduate work should have at least three third-year or higher courses in his or her program (60% of course load). Applicants not following a prescribed program or devising their own are required to submit an explanation of the content and focus of their chosen programs. (Source: OMSAS 2009 Instruction Booklet)

 

UWO says: Only those terms in which at least five full or equivalent courses (30 credit hours) are taken will be used in the calculation of grade point average (GPA) admission cut-offs. Three full or equivalent senior courses (second year and above) must be included in at least one of the two undergraduate years being used to determine compliance with established GPA cut-offs. (Source: OMSAS 2009 Instruction Booklet)

 

Other Threads:

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28982

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28964

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28958

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28445

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26423

 

I'm guessing this still applies?

[Nobodycirclesthewagons]

If majority of your courses are 4th yr (ie. 4/5 credits) would it still be a black mark on your app if you take a 1st yr course in 4th yr?

 

EDIT:

 

I found this under the Miscellaneous FAQ section:

 

 

 

I'm guessing this still applies?

 

I think one or two half credits wouldn't be too bad, particularly if it were a course that isn't simply a bird course. e.g. like an Economics, Psychology etc. course where you are genuinely interested in the material/are trying to diversify your courses.

[shannn]

med/dental schools generally look down upon this. i suppose one 1st year half-credit could be ok, but try to avoid it as much as possible. med schools know that people do it to boost marks which is why they don't like it. in fact many schools have a requirement or recommendation that most of your courses should correspond to the year you are in (eg. western: 3rd year students = majority of the classes should be 3rd year, and so on, and UT also recommends something similar)

 

so if you can avoid it, then don't take it

 

Majority =/= all

 

Its okay to take first year courses whenever, as long as the majority of your courses are appropriate for the year of your study

 

I've asked Western and U of T straight up, and they both said it was fine

[lovestruck]

I think it also depends on what those courses are. For example, this year (my 3rd year) I took 7 courses corresponding to my year (or higher) and 3 not. Out those three, 2 were electives while one was a second year science course that I needed as a prerequisite to graduate but couldn't get into in 2nd year. So in that case, I don't think that 2nd year course would be a big black mark, as it is required. I just think they don't want people taking too many easy first year electives. Although, I think if they frown upon taking too many courses out of your year because that increases your GPA, how can they still justify comparing science students (biochem, micro, etc) with arts students who have completed just the required credits for the particular school? Wouldn't that be an even more unfair comparison in terms of difficulty and discrepancies between GPA's then comparing someone with more 2nd year courses in 3rd year than a normal 3rd year student??? Seems backwards to me!

[shannn]

I think it also depends on what those courses are. For example, this year (my 3rd year) I took 7 courses corresponding to my year (or higher) and 3 not. Out those three, 2 were electives while one was a second year science course that I needed as a prerequisite to graduate but couldn't get into in 2nd year. So in that case, I don't think that 2nd year course would be a big black mark, as it is required. I just think they don't want people taking too many easy first year electives. Although, I think if they frown upon taking too many courses out of your year because that increases your GPA, how can they still justify comparing science students (biochem, micro, etc) with arts students who have completed just the required credits for the particular school? Wouldn't that be an even more unfair comparison in terms of difficulty and discrepancies between GPA's then comparing someone with more 2nd year courses in 3rd year than a normal 3rd year student??? Seems backwards to me!

 

You seem to think that they look at anything other than the level of the course and your GPA.

[lovestruck]

I know they look at other factors as well. I'm just saying a GPA between a science student and an arts student whose taken the basic science credits needed is not comparable and since Ontario schools are heavily GPA based, if MCAT scores, interview score and extracurriculars are comparable, the arts student will most likely have the higher GPA and get the advantage. If one of the students really bombs the MCAT/interview/EC's, then thats a different scenario, but the situation I'm referring to is when they are comparable and I'm just talking about GPA here. (Although some could argue an arts student has the edge with EC's as they have more time to dedicate to it as they need less study hours for their courses and a science student has the advantage on the MCAT, although both are debatable) I don't think arts students should be barred from applying, just that they should be in a separate category or such so they are not compared to science students in terms of GPA. If schools are going to get picky enough to deem that someone with lots of 1st year courses in 3rd year has an advantage over someone who takes all 3rd year courses, then the fact that arts and science students are still considered equivalent when it comes to GPA comparison just doesn't make sense.

[Apixaban85]

14) Will my application be affected if less than 60% of my course load corresponds with my year of study? Will it even be considered?

 

Having less than 60% of the courses correspond to the year of study will not invalidate the application. The main requirement of the Admissions Office is that a candidate is fulfilling their degree requirements. Although no preference is given to program of study, a student’s choices within their given program may be used as an evaluation factor. Examples of aspects examined may be one or all of the following (as applicable):

 

· Progression from lower level of courses to more advanced ones

 

· Progression from a general course of study to a more specialized one

 

· Pursuing an interest in a field of study outside the chosen major

 

If a candidate falls below the 60% guideline due to the degree requirements of their particular program they will not be penalized in the admissions process.

 

 

From the UofT Med FAQ

[shannn]

I know they look at other factors as well. I'm just saying a GPA between a science student and an arts student whose taken the basic science credits needed is not comparable and since Ontario schools are heavily GPA based, if MCAT scores, interview score and extracurriculars are comparable, the arts student will most likely have the higher GPA and get the advantage. If one of the students really bombs the MCAT/interview/EC's, then thats a different scenario, but the situation I'm referring to is when they are comparable and I'm just talking about GPA here. (Although some could argue an arts student has the edge with EC's as they have more time to dedicate to it as they need less study hours for their courses and a science student has the advantage on the MCAT, although both are debatable) I don't think arts students should be barred from applying, just that they should be in a separate category or such so they are not compared to science students in terms of GPA. If schools are going to get picky enough to deem that someone with lots of 1st year courses in 3rd year has an advantage over someone who takes all 3rd year courses, then the fact that arts and science students are still considered equivalent when it comes to GPA comparison just doesn't make sense.

 

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, but again, you seem to think that med schools look at more than just your GPA and MCAT.

 

4.0 > 3.98, regardless of your degree/courses

 

And for UT/Western, someone who takes 5 FCE's or 3rd year courses with a GPA of 3.98 is still less than someone who takes 3FCE's of 3rd year courses and 2.0 FCE's of 1st year courses with a GPA of 4.0

 

Is it right? Maybe not.

But that's how the game is played in Ontario

[kbox]

Majority =/= all

 

Its okay to take first year courses whenever, as long as the majority of your courses are appropriate for the year of your study

 

I've asked Western and U of T straight up, and they both said it was fine

 

Shann is exactly right, as long as the majority of your courses are at your "year level", it doesn't matter what if you take a 1st or 2nd year class