StellarRay Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 Just putting this out there, as I've asked this numerous times in the other oh so popular thread but no one's yet to answer me on it. I'm not all too familiar with American med schools but from what I've read the difference is that when we apply to Ontario med schools it's through OMSAS and for American med schools it's through AMCAS. Is there any particular reason why Canada doesn't just have a nationwide program like AMCAS? Anyways, the main question (as the title eludes to) is if there are any med schools in the USA that accept students based on their "best 2 years" or "last 2 years" as Queen's, UWO, and Dalhousie do here in Canada? Given my circumstances, I would very much like to know all the possible med schools that I can apply to... kinda scary for me right now to realise that possibly my only shot at med school lies within these 3 schools. Besides, I think speciality training in the USA is shorter and they get paid nearly twice as much as a Canadian physician doing the same thing. But before I get blasted about the monetary aspect... I am not looking to go into medicine for that reason but the disparity in salaries was just something I found interesting to note. Thanks again guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown user 7 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I would suggest you purchase the MSAR. It generally goes over the admission requirements for american medschools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheena815 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I can't answer your question specifically, but I do get the impression from reading SDN that people with a 3.5 or a 3.6 are perfectly fine in terms of having a good shot in the US. So whichever years are giving you trouble in Canada may be less of an issue there. (Unless of course, the international applicant GPA cutoffs are higher... that I don't know either- asking these questions on SDN in the pre-allopathic forum will likely get you a more informative response.) The disparity in salaries may change gradually if the US adopts some sort of UHC (which is looking more likely now than ever, although they won't be going to a single-payer system anytime soon), but who knows. I'd be tempted to work there too if there is really that big of a difference/ shorter residency training. I'm also miffed that, from what I've heard, Ontario does not allow moonlighting in residency?! Very uncool, Ontario. Blast away if anyone feels like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRay Posted July 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 unknown user 7: Nice book! I can't seem to find any MSAR book for 2009-2010 at Chapters. Oddly, Chapters sells MSAR 2001-2002 and older publications for like $65 but the AAMC sells it online for $25?? o.O (https://services.aamc.org/Publications/index.cfm?fuseaction=Product.displayForm&prd_id=226&prv_id=276) I wonder if the library would carry it. Sheena815: My cGPA is 1.37... >__< And usually out-of-province require higher scores to get into (often higher tuition too)... so I imagine out of country to be the same dealio. ' Even if I started a new degree, my cGPA is too damaging to recover from to apply to med schools that look at cGPA. Makes me wanna cry sometimes. Sooooo that's why I'm wondering if any State-side med schools do what Queen's, UWO, and Dalhousie does with the "best 2 years" and "last 2 years" promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown user 7 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 It might...if it is the most up to date version...is questionable. I would get it from MSAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheena815 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 My cGPA is 1.37... >__< And usually out-of-province require higher scores to get into (often higher tuition too)... so I imagine out of country to be the same dealio. ' Even if I started a new degree, my cGPA is too damaging to recover from to apply to med schools that look at cGPA. Makes me wanna cry sometimes. Sooooo that's why I'm wondering if any State-side med schools do what Queen's, UWO, and Dalhousie does with the "best 2 years" and "last 2 years" promotion. Oh right, that whole 2000 page thread, lol, I forgot about that. Yeah, that's not going to get you anywhere in the US. Okay, well, I would ask your question on SDN then, or get the recommended book. I doubt many people here are experts on US schools. SDN will be able to tell you quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 US schools break it down to 3 GPAs. GPA = cumulative GPA for all courses taken ever BCPM = bio, chem, phys, math AO = all other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRay Posted July 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 It was 35 pages... >_>' Oh boy, I've had an account at SDN forums for 2 weeks now... I just I haven't posted yet. I guess I should get ready to be accused of being a troll for say 10 pages and have my life completely exposed again. fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheena815 Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I know it wasn't *actually* 2000 pages... I was exaggerating. You don't have to post your whole story, your GPA or anything else on SDN, just ask the specific question and ignore any posts that press you for personal info, if you don't want to give it. But what n00b posted is the only way I've ever heard of US schools working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastriss Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 To sheena: a 3.4-3.5 gpa is ok if you have an in-state advantage and you are not an international. So it can be a little misleading with what canadians actually get away with. To OP: If your overal gpa is 1.37 then that would be really really really tough. You would have to explain your extenuating circumstances, hope that you have a very very very high upward trend in your gpa (they look at trends down there) and a solid solid mcat (like 35+, at least 35). Given that everything else is good, I would say that its worth a shot, but not sure if even then its a good shot. You should post in the applying to american school forums. There are some knowledgeable people there that can give you some good advice. you are allowed to retake courses for the states, and if you do better then that is a big + for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRay Posted July 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I'm wondering though, would I ever be able to get pass the admissions with my GPA since, if I got this right, most American med schools look at your ENTIRE GPA. So even if I started a new degree, re-did everything, and came out with a 3.7-3.9 (just stay with me..) in this new degree.. surely my 5 yrs of 1.37 cGPA would kill that new obtained degree's GPA and with it any chance I have? Am I even allowed to re-take courses to bump up my mark? Such as some of the science courses for the sciGPA for American schools? Honestly, such a colossal screw up I don't know if I'll ever get out from under this. I was just hoping that the States would have something like Queen's or UWO's 2nd-chance-at-medicine option. Best 2 yrs. Last 2 yrs. Just something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 You can do a post-bacc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRay Posted July 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 What is a post-bacc? Post bachelors? Like a Masters or grad student? From what I've read at SDN, unlike how most Canadian med schools give a slightly lower GPA cut-off for Grad students, most schools down in the States don't even consider your Masters GPA at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathvvv Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 I'm wondering though, would I ever be able to get pass the admissions with my GPA since, if I got this right, most American med schools look at your ENTIRE GPA. So even if I started a new degree, re-did everything, and came out with a 3.7-3.9 (just stay with me..) in this new degree.. surely my 5 yrs of 1.37 cGPA would kill that new obtained degree's GPA and with it any chance I have? Am I even allowed to re-take courses to bump up my mark? Such as some of the science courses for the sciGPA for American schools? Honestly, such a colossal screw up I don't know if I'll ever get out from under this. I was just hoping that the States would have something like Queen's or UWO's 2nd-chance-at-medicine option. Best 2 yrs. Last 2 yrs. Just something... Sadly, I think the state looks at every course you take, regardless of how many majors. That being said, retake courses and a solid MCAT may open doors for you. If not, try some OD schools, they have somewhat lesser demanding cutoffs. And also, many canadian school have weighting formulas. So you should check those. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Anyways, the main question (as the title eludes to) is if there are any med schools in the USA that accept students based on their "best 2 years" or "last 2 years" as Queen's, UWO, and Dalhousie do here in Canada? NO. US schools include EVERY post-secondary course you've taken when calculating GPA. And as far as I've seen, no US school has strict cutoffs the way Queens and UWO do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRay Posted July 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Even if I retook courses, it would take a lifetime to just repair the damage to my cGPA, wouldn't it? I've ****ed up any chance for med school in the States and most of Canada, haven't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrontierPsyc Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Even if I retook courses, it would take a lifetime to just repair the damage to my cGPA, wouldn't it? I've ****ed up any chance for med school in the States and most of Canada, haven't I? If you keep saying that, yes. Have you ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? Saying something tends to make it true, psychologically. If you think you'll never get in, you'll never get in. If you think you can, and make an effort to get in, then you have a good shot. You KNOW that you have a good shot at Queen, Western, and Dal if you can get two solid years (~3.8+) under your belt. You know this, because we've told you before. Right now you're just stuck in a rut, because it's easier to mope and have "oh, cheer up stellar ray, you still have a chance :)" than to take the steps to actually have that chance. It appeases your need to know that your situation isn't hopeless WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING TO MAKE IT BETTER. Yes, you've ruled out a lot of place. But you still have a shot at quite a few schools, and step 1. is going out and fixing your situations. It can be as easy as going and volunteering at a local hospital, taking a leadership role at a job or club, anything. So go out there, right now (at the next reasonable hour), and get something done, and stop posting here until you have something new to post about. We're not going to hold your hand. We're not going to stroke your bruised ego. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRay Posted July 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Ugh.. self-fulfilling prophecy.. if I never hear that again it'll be too soon. I understand what you're saying but you're not really answering the question... I have been out looking for information, seeing academic counsellors, phoning schools, and seeking help from both a psychiatrist and a life coach. I'm just throwing these questions out there to see if anyone's got any answers that could save me some time. There's quite alot of med schools in the States. Even though that other thread grew to 35 pages and even though many posts were not constructive, I still don't regret throwing myself out there. It's really helped to gather so much collective knowledge so fast, to see all these different perspectives of med school prospects and current students, and to be honest I just really need people to talk to right now. And if you don't want to talk or see this thread then just don't click on it is all I can suggest. But yeah, thanks for keeping it real. I'll be volunteering in a community mediation this coming Monday. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrontierPsyc Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 If you're looking for emotional support, then this probably isn't the best place to be. Talk to a friend, call a distress center. Looking for emotional support in strangers on the internet isn't usually a good idea. American medical school application are more or less standardized, and all of them (except maybe DO schools) will consider your cGPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRay Posted July 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Argh.............. I am not looking for a shoulder to cry on. I've cried enough lately. Enough. I just need people who might or actually know about what I'm asking to answer my questions. In this case, how would I get into med school in the States? Would I really have to do like 10 to 15 years or more (ie 2-4 new degrees?!?) to raise my cGPA back up? Is that the fact that I'm dealing with? Everyone can say that "it's never impossible" or that I just have to work harder... but raising a cGPA to something something competitive, what exactly do I have to do in my case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrontierPsyc Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Pretty much, you'd have to do enough years of university to raise your GPA to a reasonable level. That, and do REALLY well on the MCAT. Finally, there are "special" masters programs designed for people in your predicament. I think SDN has a sticky about them somewhere, but even that is not a guarantee. Finally there are DO schools; DO schools will only count your latest marks if you retake a course and have lower admissions standards, so if you were to retake every course you've taken so far and do reasonably well you'd have a shot. So, tl;dr, the US would be a really long shot. As for "exactly" what you need to do, no one can tell you that. Premed ≠ precognition. Call around and see what certain schools say to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRay Posted July 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 Found the link for the SDN PostBac and SMP thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=378876 Also here's a Q&A with Georgetown Med School (wherever the heck that is.. Boston??) about their SMP: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/403693_2 So from what I'm getting from the SDN forums is this: If I choose to pursue MD (aka Allopathic medicine) then realistically I'd need like 10-15 years of amazing grades to fix my cGPA. Which basically means it's not going to happen ever in my lifetime since I'll eventually have to work, feed myself, live... Take a moment to realise that this option just doesn't exist anymore. It's rather sad. If I choose to pursue DO (Osteopathic medicine) then if I'm understanding this right, I could literally re-take every course I have in the past and if I do well enough then they would only look at my newest marks. Literally, a second chance... the drawback is that I'd have to most likely repeat the same degree basically 4 years in 3 years from now. So I'd be about 8 years behind and I'll be 30 by the time I finish my undergrad when most people are done there's when they're 22. If med school works out then I'd still have another 4-10 years if I get into specialization of any sort. So I'd be around 40 before I could start to work. On the plus side, I could still use my improved grades and apply to Queen's, UWO, Dalhousie, Sask (i think). PostBac and SMP sound pretty much like the pre-med programmes offered by the Carrib schools in that if you do well in them then you'd be eligible to be admitted into their own respective med schools. Unlike the Carrib pre-med however, you need to have a degree first. sigh, i'm such a **** up.. ewe me when i'm 40 yrs old >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapers Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Sorry to hack your conversation StellarRay. My question, on the topic of this thread, is: are there any American schools with more relaxed prerequisite course requirements, like those at Western, Queens, Toronto, or Dal??? (ie. don't require 1st year bio, chem, physics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somber Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Honestly, from a medical student's point of view, you have less than 1% chance in getting into ANY medical school in Canada, US, or even Carribbean. I've been reading your forum for almost a week now, but you are still sitting there asking people the question, "do I have hope?" just to comfort yourself. Stop asking people if there is any easier alternate way to medical school because THERE IS NONE. We ALL worked VERY hard to be where we are right now, so don't try to accomplish something with minimal effort. FIX YOURSELF. Personally, I do not think you have the quality because I know you lied to your parents for 5 years. You think "honesty" is not important in medicine? THINK AGAIN, because they will see right through that quality of yours during the interview. If I were to interview you and knew who you were, then I would reject you with no hesitation or any regret. The world does not go as easily as you want. So stop posting questions here until you show some improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Sorry to hack your conversation StellarRay.My question, on the topic of this thread, is: are there any American schools with more relaxed prerequisite course requirements, like those at Western, Queens, Toronto, or Dal??? (ie. don't require 1st year bio, chem, physics) As far as I've seen: No. They all have prereqs...and if anything, they ask for more prereqs as compared to Canadian schools. Generally: 1 full year of bio+chem+physics+english, organic and/or biochem, sometimes a math requirement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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