When Canada rejects you, look South young pre-med..?

[trymeover]

Okay, so you get rejected to all the Canadian Med-Schools and you'd rather go to the US than Caribbeans or somethin'... then how can it be done?

 

I heard U.S. Med-Schools are more lenient with Canadian GPAs?

 

I also heard, they take the MCAT muchhhh more into account then a Canadian Med-School.

 

I heard they don't look at EC's as much as Canadian Med-Schools do.

 

I heard it's really hard to get residency there.. and of course all that immigration stuff is really complicated..?

 

I also heard they fees are like $50,000 per year without living or food.

 

Let's take Wayne State as an example (since it's one of the closest Med-Schools to the Canadian Border), what would you need to get acceptance there?

(GPA, MCAT, EC's, Money, Interview... etc.)

[premed11]

Okay, so you get rejected to all the Canadian Med-Schools and you'd rather go to the US than Caribbeans or somethin'... then how can it be done?

 

I heard U.S. Med-Schools are more lenient with Canadian GPAs?

 

I also heard, they take the MCAT muchhhh more into account then a Canadian Med-School.

 

I heard they don't look at EC's as much as Canadian Med-Schools do.

 

I heard it's really hard to get residency there.. and of course all that immigration stuff is really complicated..?

 

I also heard they fees are like $50,000 per year without living or food.

 

Let's take Wayne State as an example (since it's one of the closest Med-Schools to the Canadian Border), what would you need to get acceptance there?

(GPA, MCAT, EC's, Money, Interview... etc.)

 

For Wayne State, usually a 3.6+ GPA and their average MCAT is 32.

 

Like Les Grossman says "and LOTS of MONNAAAY"

[Alastriss]

Most of that is right

 

Not really hard to get a visa, but not easy either. Depends on the specialty.

 

You may be able to get away with a 31 or something but it hasn't been tried. 32 and applying early is a really safe bet. I'm only telling you this because if you do in fact have/get a 31, I don't want you not applying because we told you so.

 

Its pretty expensive. and by pretty i mean VERY. Also ECs are looked at pretty hard at US med schools so don't underestimate them.

[The Law]

Most of that is right

 

Not really hard to get a visa, but not easy either. Depends on the specialty.

 

You may be able to get away with a 31 or something but it hasn't been tried. 32 and applying early is a really safe bet. I'm only telling you this because if you do in fact have/get a 31, I don't want you not applying because we told you so.

 

Its pretty expensive. and by pretty i mean VERY. Also ECs are looked at pretty hard at US med schools so don't underestimate them.

 

I know a few people who got in with 29-31s.

 

also, clinical experience is a lot more important in the states (research looks good too).

[THX]

If you have good grades, a decent MCAT, interesting ECs, put some effort/thought into your personal statement and apply early then you will have a very good shot at getting an interview & acceptance in the US. However, I think most people who applied this cycle will tell you that it is more difficult than it is made out to be - the reality is, Americans are favored over Canadians so you have to impress them more than homegrown students.

[trymeover]

For Wayne State, usually a 3.6+ GPA and their average MCAT is 32.

 

Like Les Grossman says "and LOTS of MONNAAAY"

 

How do US medschools calculate canadian GPA?

[The Law]

How do US medschools calculate canadian GPA?

 

Check the US forum. There are GPA scales for many schools there.

[In_Valid]

Don't underestimate the US schools. I was well above the cutoffs for many schools and I was rejected. You have to be selective of schools that are Canadian friendly.

[The Law]

Indeed, many posters on P101 talk about the importance of 1) apply early and 2) aplying widely.

[n00b]

There are so many misconceptions. When Canadians think about US schools, they usually only know stories about 2 extremes, like Wayne State and Harvard.

[astudentis]

Indeed, many posters on P101 talk about the importance of 1) apply early and 2) aplying widely.

 

Haha, i didnt do either of that this past fall, and now it seems like i have just wasted alot of money that will just go down the drain

 

To add to Wayne... they make you sign a contract that the state will not offer any financial aid during the period of study if you get accepted there... and the tuitions was like 56 000 U.S. dollars = 69 109.6091 Canadian dollars!! not including living and what noe

[token]

There are so many misconceptions. When Canadians think about US schools, they usually only know stories about 2 extremes, like Wayne State and Harvard.

Hah, very true.

 

But in general as you move away from Wayne and towards Harvard, the schools will be harder to get into and much cheaper.

[Alastriss]

Don't underestimate the US schools. I was well above the cutoffs for many schools and I was rejected. You have to be selective of schools that are Canadian friendly.

 

This is true on the other side man, it's not just us. Tons of US applicants get rejected with high stats. Honestly, take a gander at SDN and read some of the horror stories. I sincerely believe that there are some things that are just very unfamiliar about our applications. Like some times the interviewers didn't know what some of my activities were, but I feel like we had this talk before.

 

Anyways to the OP: Pick your battles wisely. We have a great list of where we interviewed that you should take a look at, and where we applied where we had 0 chance (say no to indiana).

 

If there is anything I want, is that we no longer give our coin to frikkin Indiana U.

[THX]

This is true on the other side man, it's not just us. Tons of US applicants get rejected with high stats. Honestly, take a gander at SDN and read some of the horror stories. I sincerely believe that there are some things that are just very unfamiliar about our applications. Like some times the interviewers didn't know what some of my activities were, but I feel like we had this talk before.

 

Anyways to the OP: Pick your battles wisely. We have a great list of where we interviewed that you should take a look at, and where we applied where we had 0 chance (say no to indiana).

 

If there is anything I want, is that we no longer give our coin to frikkin Indiana U.

Ya, stupid Indiana. I actually thought I had a shot there when I first applied.

[Rach]

Ya, stupid Indiana. I actually thought I had a shot there when I first applied.

 

It's kinda shocking how hard it is for Canadians to get into IU. My best friend is a US citizen and is in her first year there. She had average stats and only got a 30 P on the MCAT (second try) and got in with her first application whereas you guys have killer stats and get no love at all. I'll probably apply there since I did my undergrad in Indiana, hopefully this gives me a chance even though I'm Canadian.

[silvermen85]

There are so many misconceptions. When Canadians think about US schools, they usually only know stories about 2 extremes, like Wayne State and Harvard.

 

 

I think the problem is that the middle pack schools are even more selective towards foreign students than the other two ends. But I do find as a international student applying to top US schools not only do need to be well-rounded on paper, you also have to have something that just really capture the adcom's attention.

 

In a way at least for the top US schools they are really picky when comes to international applicants in that they want you to show all your credentials, but you need to be careful in that showing too much strength in one aspect might hurt your chance in another. If you are a superstar in research with a very respectable EC list, the chances are your research credential might actually diminish your EC value and some of a more PC oriented schools might reject you because they think you are more suited for a research heavy institution, even though on its own the EC merit is sufficient for an interview.

[Alastriss]

I think the problem is that the middle pack schools are even more selective towards foreign students than the other two ends. But I do find as a international student applying to top US schools not only do need to be well-rounded on paper, you also have to have something that just really capture the adcom's attention.

 

In a way at least for the top US schools they are really picky when comes to international applicants in that they want you to show all your credentials, but you need to be careful in that showing too much strength in one aspect might hurt your chance in another. If you are a superstar in research with a very respectable EC list, the chances are your research credential might actually diminish your EC value and some of a more PC oriented schools might reject you because they think you are more suited for a research heavy institution, even though on its own the EC merit is sufficient for an interview.

 

For what its worth, I think that you would probably have better luck with top tier schools than you would with middle and lower tier schools. Any of the luck I have had was bottom-top and top-middle tier schools, with nothing from the least competitive schools I applied to.

 

I think I learned a lot this application cycle. It is generally conceived on these forums that internationl = - x points automatically. I sincerely believe this is absolutely not true. Go through the cycle, talk to people at the schools you interview at, and you may find your own conclusions.

 

We are not docked marks just by virtue of being international. Here are a few things that might hurt us.

 

- We can't shadow. This is what I was told verbatim at my Case interview. "I've interviewed canadians and they also have told me the couldn't shadow, which is a problem. What have you done about it?"

- They aren't familiar with how hard our undergrad schools are and don't know what our intentions are for coming. At my NYU interview "So your from canada, what brings you all the way to new york". At that same interview "Tell me about Queen's, I have never heard of it".

- They don't know what some of the stuff on our applications are. Some of them thought that St. John's was the same thing as EMS, others had no clue.

 

We just look "weird". Period. That's why canadian friendly schools are just that. They are familiar with our applications because they accept a lot. So we are "less weird" to them. Which in the end, makes a big different given just how subjective this process really is.

 

 

Remedy all that, (somehow) convince that you won't decline their offer to attend a canadian school like the generations of applicants before you have done, and you will be ON PAR with any resident (given that it's not a state school. This is my opinion in the end, but I feel that those of you who will go through it will see that what is told here is just fragments of a truth that loses its meaning when told to someone who hasn't been through the cycle yet.

[silvermen85]

I don't necessarily think there is an automatic deduction in point applying to US schools if you are international student. But rather you need to convince them more as why they should recruit an international application over their own citizens if the qualification is approximately similar. And this can be a convoluted reason as in the adcom might feel they trust the education system in the US more, that the domestic students are likely to stay in the US after graduation, or simply the fact they feel more comfortable with name recognition. I know the last fact people may argue that the name of the school doesn't play a factor, but the fact that we are all human beings and adcom is no different, it will have slight influences when reviewing applicants from a school they recognize vs one they do not.

 

Two people I know who are Canadian that got Harvard NP, stanford and HST interviews, one graduated from Mcgill and went on to Oxford to complete an extra degree, another one did his undergrad at Brown. Other than that, their application package is above average at best.

[Halcyon]

- We can't shadow. This is what I was told verbatim at my Case interview. "I've interviewed canadians and they also have told me the couldn't shadow, which is a problem. What have you done about it?"

- They aren't familiar with how hard our undergrad schools are and don't know what our intentions are for coming. At my NYU interview "So your from canada, what brings you all the way to new york". At that same interview "Tell me about Queen's, I have never heard of it".

- They don't know what some of the stuff on our applications are. Some of them thought that St. John's was the same thing as EMS, others had no clue.

 

Alastriss,

 

Thanks for an interesting (and informative) post. Personally, I see the US schools as another option, but not an easier option to the Cdn schools. More or less a bigger pool of schools to apply to.

 

This may be a silly question; but, really, what can we do about our lack of shadowing experience? And, what do you say to interviewers that asked questions of why you are coming "all the way" to the US?

 

Good luck!

 

H

[token]

That's some good advice Alastriss....especially about convincing them they're not a backup. There's some people here with stats so amazing even I'm surprised they're applying to the US. The issue may not be that they're uncomfortable with our Canadian credentials, but more so that they don't want to waste time interviewing and then holding a spot for someone who will immediately ditch them once UofT's acceptances go out.

 

My interviewers have had only good things to say about my undergrad though (McGill is almost an ivy to them).

 

I did a few weeks of "shadowing" here and there - but it was basically me just asking if I could follow a doctor around for a few days (obviously not in private situations). Apparently that's what it is? I don't understand why it's so significant either.

[Alastriss]

I don't necessarily think there is an automatic deduction in point applying to US schools if you are international student. But rather you need to convince them more as why they should recruit an international application over their own citizens if the qualification is approximately similar. And this can be a convoluted reason as in the adcom might feel they trust the education system in the US more, that the domestic students are likely to stay in the US after graduation, or simply the fact they feel more comfortable with name recognition. I know the last fact people may argue that the name of the school doesn't play a factor, but the fact that we are all human beings and adcom is no different, it will have slight influences when reviewing applicants from a school they recognize vs one they do not.

 

Two people I know who are Canadian that got Harvard NP, stanford and HST interviews, one graduated from Mcgill and went on to Oxford to complete an extra degree, another one did his undergrad at Brown. Other than that, their application package is above average at best.

 

This isn't like residency where you not being a native requires them to give you an expensive visa. You bear your fair share - that's WHY tuition is so high. There is so much variation in their own schools as it is, so they don't know much about their own schools. Schools in the west don't know much about schools in the east, and even though they try to have ad comms that know schools from different areas, it still is not transparent knowledge. That, is why you have the MCAT and why it has so much weight on it.

 

Regardless, school name does matter. Will it make your application. Definitely not, but it's a nice boost. That being said, I wouldn't say a 3.6 at say MIT beats a 3.9 at a state school, and apparently neither does LizzyM.

[mca]

There's no shadowing in Canada?? what?

 

I worked on a research project with a physcian for a few months and then he asked if I'd be interested in shadowing him during his clinic hours since he knew I wanted to be a doctor. Obviously I jumped on the opportunity. I just had to sign a confidentiality form and that was it. I thought similar situations arose all the time?

[Alastriss]

There's no shadowing in Canada?? what?

 

I worked on a research project with a physcian for a few months and then he asked if I'd be interested in shadowing him during his clinic hours since he knew I wanted to be a doctor. Obviously I jumped on the opportunity. I just had to sign a confidentiality form and that was it. I thought similar situations arose all the time?

 

Well there is no shadowing like there is in the states. You have to know someone. Obviously my friends who have parent doctors have gotten the opportunity to do it. You have to know someone here; you can't go to a hospital and say you want to shadow and get to do it just like that.

[parachutes]

I thought I'd share my experience so far. I've had 2 US interviews so far and 3 more coming up. I was accepted at both. Being a Canadian did not come up at all (except when asked about an SAT score at Wayne State) and I felt like I was being treated like any regular American applicant there. I'm certain they had never heard of my undergrad and this did not affect my application. I did some shadowing in the states and internationally and expressed a keen interest in travel and adventure....which may have been why I was never questioned on why I wanted to come all the way out to their schools. As far as I was concerned, I was just another out of state applicant.

 

I certainly feel like being accepted in the US is far easier than in Canada, likely because of the results I've gotten so far this cycle. At the most, I would expect maybe 3 interviews in Canada (have 1 so far) so it becomes a bit of a numbers game. There are just so many more opportunities to get accepted in the states. As a bonus, I felt the AMCAS application template allowed me to fully expand on everything I've done so I could sell myself better than any other application allowed me to.

[Antares]

Just a question, Why is it so much harder to get accepted into Canadian Med Schools than US?

 

If this is true, it actually works in my favor as I hope to enter a US Med School and practice medicine there (Doing undergrad in Canada). But then that opens up another set of problems (Tuition fees/no scholarships etc..)