When Canada rejects you, look South young pre-med..?

[Alastriss]

Just a question, Why is it so much harder to get accepted into Canadian Med Schools than US?

 

If this is true, it actually works in my favor as I hope to enter a US Med School and practice medicine there (Doing undergrad in Canada). But then that opens up another set of problems (Tuition fees/no scholarships etc..)

 

Parachutes said it best. It's a numbers game. They just have more schools down there to apply to. Here you can be worthy of medicine and not get in because of a lack of seats, down there, if you are worthy of medicine and you were smart about the application (applied early, worked hard on your secondaries, essays) you will, generally speaking, get in.

[trymeover]

I thought I'd share my experience so far. I've had 2 US interviews so far and 3 more coming up. I was accepted at both. Being a Canadian did not come up at all (except when asked about an SAT score at Wayne State) and I felt like I was being treated like any regular American applicant there. I'm certain they had never heard of my undergrad and this did not affect my application. I did some shadowing in the states and internationally and expressed a keen interest in travel and adventure....which may have been why I was never questioned on why I wanted to come all the way out to their schools. As far as I was concerned, I was just another out of state applicant.

 

I certainly feel like being accepted in the US is far easier than in Canada, likely because of the results I've gotten so far this cycle. At the most, I would expect maybe 3 interviews in Canada (have 1 so far) so it becomes a bit of a numbers game. There are just so many more opportunities to get accepted in the states. As a bonus, I felt the AMCAS application template allowed me to fully expand on everything I've done so I could sell myself better than any other application allowed me to.

 

Hey parachutes,

 

You said you got in 2 out of 2 and going for more. Can you give some more information?

 

As in, what're your stats like and where'd you apply?

 

Thanks!

[parachutes]

Hey parachutes,

 

You said you got in 2 out of 2 and going for more. Can you give some more information?

 

As in, what're your stats like and where'd you apply?

 

Thanks!

 

Hi there,

 

You can check out the interview thread and the accepted/rejected/waitlisted thread for all the schools I've heard back from. My acceptances are at Wayne State and SUNY Upstate. My total gpa was 3.77, BCPM (science) gpa was 3.78 and my MCAT was 10 11 M 15 (36M). I had 1 yr of research and a lot of volunteer work and travel. Most importantly, I used the application essay and each experience slot to fully describe what I did, what I learned from it, and how it applies to medicine. PM me if I can help you further.

[premed11]

Well, after getting rejected at Queens/Western/Ottawa/Mac and most likely UofT as well, it is time for me to look South.

 

I was hoping that Queen's cutoffs wouldn't change, but guess my luck just sucks.

[token]

Well, after getting rejected at Queens/Western/Ottawa/Mac and most likely UofT as well, it is time for me to look South.

 

I was hoping that Queen's cutoffs wouldn't change, but guess my luck just sucks.

Gah, I suspect many people will be joining you over the next week. I never realized how hard Canadian pre-meds had it until now...brutal.

[Halcyon]

I wonder what the US med schools will think when they get huge increases in applications from Cdns this summer....They must think something is wrong with us.....haha!

[token]

Since I know a lot of you interviewed in Canada last cycle, I figured I'd ask here: should I still interview in Ontario, considering it seems like they're impossible to get into, and would be more expensive anyway? I had kind of vowed not to, but I don't want to regret not seeing what they had to offer.

[imagine]

What is the latest US applicants have to accept an offer? (Ie. Can they hold out until they learn from the Canadian schools in May/June?)

[Typical Premed]

What is the latest US applicants have to accept an offer? (Ie. Can they hold out until they learn from the Canadian schools in May/June?)

 

You can only hold one acceptance at a US school after May 15 but may stay on as many waitlists as you would like. So you would need to decide which US school is your top choice and may need to pay some sort of deposit to them to hold the spot depending on how the timing works out with the Canadian acceptances.

[Retsage]

Since I know a lot of you interviewed in Canada last cycle, I figured I'd ask here: should I still interview in Ontario, considering it seems like they're impossible to get into, and would be more expensive anyway? I had kind of vowed not to, but I don't want to regret not seeing what they had to offer.

 

No.

 

The best schools here do not hold a candle to the best schools in the USA. The only reason to stay is due to the expense, but if that's a non-factor, don't bother.

[Halcyon]

No.

 

The best schools here do not hold a candle to the best schools in the USA. The only reason to stay is due to the expense, but if that's a non-factor, don't bother.

 

But what about residency? Ease of matching?

[token]

Thanks Retsage. I'm completely burned out from interviewing...and the panel interview thing sounds absolutely soul crushing...but my pre-med aquaintances all think I'd be insane not to try and stay in ON, even though I can go to a US school for free. I figured I must be missing something ha.

 

From what I've heard, you can still enter the first round of the match as a US graduate...while at the same time you can match anywhere in the US willing to sponsor you, so there's no downside there.

[mca]

Thanks Retsage. I'm completely burned out from interviewing...and the panel interview thing sounds absolutely soul crushing...but my pre-med aquaintances all think I'd be insane not to try and stay in ON, even though I can go to a US school for free. I figured I must be missing something ha.

 

From what I've heard, you can still enter the first round of the match as a US graduate...while at the same time you can match anywhere in the US willing to sponsor you, so there's no downside there.

 

That's my understanding of how it works too.

 

I completely agree with Retsage.

[Halcyon]

Thanks Retsage. I'm completely burned out from interviewing...and the panel interview thing sounds absolutely soul crushing...but my pre-med aquaintances all think I'd be insane not to try and stay in ON, even though I can go to a US school for free. I figured I must be missing something ha.

 

From what I've heard, you can still enter the first round of the match as a US graduate...while at the same time you can match anywhere in the US willing to sponsor you, so there's no downside there.

 

token,

 

Congrats! Did you get a US scholarship? If I may ask, for which school?

 

H

[xylem29]

Thanks Retsage. I'm completely burned out from interviewing...and the panel interview thing sounds absolutely soul crushing...but my pre-med aquaintances all think I'd be insane not to try and stay in ON, even though I can go to a US school for free. I figured I must be missing something ha.

 

From what I've heard, you can still enter the first round of the match as a US graduate...while at the same time you can match anywhere in the US willing to sponsor you, so there's no downside there.

 

If you have a full-scholarship and only have to pay for living expenses then it'll probably work out to be the same cost or cheaper than going to an ON school. The facilities are certainly nicer at the great US schools - but while the facilities at the CDN schools may not be as great, there are a few that have amazing hospital networks (Toronto, McGill...). Most CDN meds schools also have the same teaching technologies (simulation OR, etc) as the good US schools. The actual buildings (libraries, lecture rooms, student lounges, etc) might be nicer (but then again, schools like Alberta have great brand new facilities also) but you don't get pampered in the US. If you attend a CDN school, you'll get parties thrown for you by the banks, lots of free stuff, seminars, special events, books, stethoscopes, and the coveted MD financial class backpacks.

 

You can enter the first round of the match as a US graduate but the fact remains that PDs will always favor CDN graduates - there are tons of threads on this and that is the consensus. Even coming from Harvard, you're not on equal footing as someone from Memorial. The clerkships simply are not the same, you don't get the same hands-on training and the teaching in the US are geared towards taking written exams while in Canada, everything is geared towards OSCE - many superb US graduates find the Canadian exams difficult b/c the US curriculum doesn't teach for the OSCE. There are threads on this also.

 

Finally, the other thing to consider is - what specialty do you want. Is it a really competitive one? If it's super competitive, then going to the US is better since there are more spots and you'd have to take the USMLE anyway (as a CDN student), might as well attend a US school that teaches for the USMLE (whereas Canada does not). If on the other hand you're planning on a specialty that you think you'll have good chances for in Canada - might as well stay in Canada rather than writing both sets of exams for both countries (if you're coming from the US).

 

Just don't choose a Ivy League US school for prestige - because it offers absolutely no advantage in anything. In Canada, ALL med students are part of the med school club, once you're in, you're part of the club. If you attend Saskatchewan but are from Toronto, you can easily find research opportunities at UofT in the summer when you go home for the summer - you have no research advantage in the US. There are 4 research powerhouses in Canada to choose from (UBC, Toronto, Alberta, and McGill). You will be disadvantaged in CaRMS (even if slightly - IF you are coming from a reputable school with flying credentials and references). You will be disadvantaged in the OSCE licensing exams. You will be slightly behind your Canadian peers during PGY-1 because during MS3 and MS4 they got to do everything (clerks are an essential part of the hospital system in Canada, they're not so in the US) but you didn't.

 

More valid reasons would be life experience, intentions of doing residency in the US, etc. Don't do it for the ego, it'll just make things more difficult later on.

 

You seem to be an incredible applicant Token - the sky's the limit for you once you're a med student and I'm sure you'll get the residency of your choice coming from Canada.

[Alastriss]

If you have a full-scholarship and only have to pay for living expenses then it'll probably work out to be the same cost or cheaper than going to an ON school. The facilities are certainly nicer at the great US schools - but while the facilities at the CDN schools may not be as great, there are a few that have amazing hospital networks (Toronto, McGill...). Most CDN meds schools also have the same teaching technologies (simulation OR, etc) as the good US schools. The actual buildings (libraries, lecture rooms, student lounges, etc) might be nicer (but then again, schools like Alberta have great brand new facilities also) but you don't get pampered in the US. If you attend a CDN school, you'll get parties thrown for you by the banks, lots of free stuff, seminars, special events, books, stethoscopes, and the coveted MD financial class backpacks.

 

You can enter the first round of the match as a US graduate but the fact remains that PDs will always favor CDN graduates - there are tons of threads on this and that is the consensus. Even coming from Harvard, you're not on equal footing as someone from Memorial. The clerkships simply are not the same, you don't get the same hands-on training and the teaching in the US are geared towards taking written exams while in Canada, everything is geared towards OSCE - many superb US graduates find the Canadian exams difficult b/c the US curriculum doesn't teach for the OSCE. There are threads on this also.

 

Finally, the other thing to consider is - what specialty do you want. Is it a really competitive one? If it's super competitive, then going to the US is better since there are more spots and you'd have to take the USMLE anyway (as a CDN student), might as well attend a US school that teaches for the USMLE (whereas Canada does not). If on the other hand you're planning on a specialty that you think you'll have good chances for in Canada - might as well stay in Canada rather than writing both sets of exams for both countries (if you're coming from the US).

 

Just don't choose a Ivy League US school for prestige - because it offers absolutely no advantage in anything. In Canada, ALL med students are part of the med school club, once you're in, you're part of the club. If you attend Saskatchewan but are from Toronto, you can easily find research opportunities at UofT in the summer when you go home for the summer - you have no research advantage in the US. There are 4 research powerhouses in Canada to choose from (UBC, Toronto, Alberta, and McGill). You will be disadvantaged in CaRMS (even if slightly - IF you are coming from a reputable school with flying credentials and references). You will be disadvantaged in the OSCE licensing exams. You will be slightly behind your Canadian peers during PGY-1 because during MS3 and MS4 they got to do everything (clerks are an essential part of the hospital system in Canada, they're not so in the US) but you didn't.

 

More valid reasons would be life experience, intentions of doing residency in the US, etc. Don't do it for the ego, it'll just make things more difficult later on.

 

You seem to be an incredible applicant Token - the sky's the limit for you once you're a med student and I'm sure you'll get the residency of your choice coming from Canada.

s

I don't know much about schools other than UWO and Queen's, but from my experience at NYU I can already tell you that NYU will kick these two canadian' school's ass all over the room. This is keeping in mind that UWO boasts lots of hands on experience especially if you do your clerkship in the SWOMEN network. NYU isn't even amongst the ranks that token is taking about, and I think that the only one that can address this issue best is retsage - he interviewed at UT, UWO, and Queen's as well as some top tier US schools.

 

With that said you have some advantages with some canadian schools that I haven't felt at some schools like Case. I feel that the medical community is very supportive at Queen's, The physicians really look out for the students and it's possible because its a small, intimate network. You will hear about this and observorships if you interview at queen's this year. I didn't feel that at Case, for example, but then again I could be wrong.

 

Token this is the hardest part. Its hard to say what's what from heresay. there are just too few people doing what you are going to do. I know of a guy on SDN who I PMed that said he felt that canadians US grads were on exactly the same footing as canadian grads. Some other guy told me he scored all these radiology interviews (graduated from albany, miles in ranks below the schools you are taking about) in canada, but chose to stay in the US with his wife. Some of these people have said the H1B visa is hard to come by these days, while a program director on SDN said that this is not an issue at all for certain programs like IM.

 

I even know of a vandy graduate that said H1Bs are hard to come by, while an MSU grad thought it was not that hard.

 

Too much heresay, so it really comes down to you making a decision knowing that you won't be sure of the truth. I recommend you e-mail some program directors and find out for yourself.

[token]

Thanks for your thoughtful responses guys.

 

I guess the issue there is whether I can justify paying tuition on the off chance it might help me match in Canada easier, when I'm not even sure I want to do that. I'm mostly concerned with the quality of education and access to research, and it sounds like neither would be particuclarly better here (I'm not getting into UofT, basically).

 

Anywho, I'll just ignore it for now. It seems like it doesn't matter if you decline invites at the last minute, since they wouldn't be able to offer your spot to anyone else anyway.

[n00b]

 

I'm not getting into UofT, basically).

 

 

Why not?

 

 

 

10charcharchar

[SpanishFly]

Token, right now, you're agonizing over a decision you don't necessarily have to make. You need to first get into a Canadian school (although based on your current success, I'm sure thats very probable), but if I were you I would still go and give it a chance. Once you've been to the interviews, and seen the schools for yourself, it may affect your decision (in either direction), but you won't know that unless you go. I don't know where you were accepted, but I'm sure its an exceptional school (and the fact that you don't have to pay is ridiculously great) but I wouldn't turn down a med school interview in Canada. Whats the worst thing that can come of it (aside from spending some more money)?

 

On another note, does anybody here know if Canadians should fill out the FAFSA forms? I don't think we're eligible, but I could be wrong...

[n00b]

no you don't fill out fafsa

[token]

Token, right now, you're agonizing over a decision you don't necessarily have to make. You need to first get into a Canadian school (although based on your current success, I'm sure thats very probable), but if I were you I would still go and give it a chance. Once you've been to the interviews, and seen the schools for yourself, it may affect your decision (in either direction), but you won't know that unless you go. I don't know where you were accepted, but I'm sure its an exceptional school (and the fact that you don't have to pay is ridiculously great) but I wouldn't turn down a med school interview in Canada. Whats the worst thing that can come of it (aside from spending some more money)?

Thanks for your response, and you're absolutely right except that I've gotta admit, the issue for me is more that I'm not confident I could get in. Like Queen's interviewing ~800 people for their class is absurd. And UWO was something like a ~25% chance post-interview for non-SWOMEN? I could definitely whore out my rural Ontario connections in the interview if I needed to, but I'm not even sure that'd be enough. Those are the only two Canadian schools I could get into, and it seems like falling in love with either would be a recipe for agony.

 

My parents also feel like I should try for one Canadian option though (for peace of mind). It's not so much the money, but the time/effort/etc. considering how badly I'm doing in school, that's holding me back.

[n00b]

Token is my hero

[Alastriss]

Thanks for your response, and you're absolutely right except that I've gotta admit, the issue for me is more that I'm not confident I could get in. Like Queen's interviewing ~800 people for their class is absurd. And UWO was something like a ~25% chance post-interview for non-SWOMEN? I could definitely whore out my rural Ontario connections in the interview if I needed to, but I'm not even sure that'd be enough. Those are the only two Canadian schools I could get into, and it seems like falling in love with either would be a recipe for agony.

 

My parents also feel like I should try for one Canadian option though (for peace of mind). It's not so much the money, but the time/effort/etc. considering how badly I'm doing in school, that's holding me back.

 

Hey for UWO it is like 38% for non-swomen and it is worth a shot. IMO if you go the rural route as a non-swomen it will just come off as bull****. The only interest I have in rural medicine is doing public health work in rural regions.

[token]

Hey for UWO it is like 38% for non-swomen and it is worth a shot. IMO if you go the rural route as a non-swomen it will just come off as bull****. The only interest I have in rural medicine is doing public health work in rural regions.

Yeah, unfortunately though most of my clinical experiences were in rural areas, they were the wrong kind of rural (Northern ON). I wouldn't say I'm passionate about it, but I've definitely seen the need in those areas first hand.

 

And a story of UofTfail just for you n00b: With a few hours to go before OMSAS was due, I remembered UofT had an essay component. No worries! I have an impeccably written personal statement that just so happens to fit nicely within UofT's word count. All I have to do is run a Canadian English spell check and copy and paste, right? But then when I sent a copy of my "perfect" application to one of my late LOR writers, he was a bit curious as to why I spent a good paragraph talking about why I'd be open to studying in the USA. Or why I spent another good chunk describing my childhood/life in Canada to people who presumably already live here. Proofreading is fundamental.

[Alastriss]

Yeah, unfortunately though most of my clinical experiences were in rural areas, they were the wrong kind of rural (Northern ON). I wouldn't say I'm passionate about it, but I've definitely seen the need in those areas first hand.

 

And a story of UofTfail just for you n00b: With a few hours to go before OMSAS was due, I remembered UofT had an essay component. No worries! I have an impeccably written personal statement that just so happens to fit nicely within UofT's word count. All I have to do is run a Canadian English spell check and copy and paste, right? But then when I sent a copy of my "perfect" application to one of my late LOR writers, he was a bit curious as to why I spent a good paragraph talking about why I'd be open to studying in the USA.Or why I spent another good chunk describing my childhood/life in Canada to people who presumably already live here. Proofreading is fundamental.

 

Wow ...ultimate fail story haha.

 

Token, Rural is rural, they are just committed to the SWOMEN network. Doesn't mean they will look down on you if you did volunteering elsewhere.

 

by the way, how did you get around to getting volunteer experience in these rural areas? I am looking into that, as volunteering abroad can be very expensive.