LOR--non academic referees

[neurogirl]

I have a question regarding choosing non academic referees...I worked as a Research Scientist for a year in between my undegraduate and graduate degrees, would my supervisor/boss from that year qualify as non-academic (even though he is a university professor?)

 

Thanks

[silvermen85]

I have a question regarding choosing non academic referees...I worked as a Research Scientist for a year in between my undegraduate and graduate degrees, would my supervisor/boss from that year qualify as non-academic (even though he is a university professor?)

 

Thanks

 

Nop, it has academic written over it.

[tree999]

Nop, it has academic written over it.

Hmm. I'm pretty sure schools consider a letter "academic" only if the professor has TAUGHT you a course in the sciences. So no, that wouldn't be considered an "academic" letter, because you weren't in their class.

 

Even though it's technically fine, you might want to find someone who has supervised you in an extra-curricular or non-research setting just to add breadth to your application. (and then send both!)

 

I guess we need a third party to settle this?

[silvermen85]

Hmm. I'm pretty sure schools consider a letter "academic" only if the professor has TAUGHT you a course in the sciences. So no, that wouldn't be considered an "academic" letter, because you weren't in their class.

 

Even though it's technically fine, you might want to find someone who has supervised you in an extra-curricular or non-research setting just to add breadth to your application. (and then send both!)

 

I guess we need a third party to settle this?

 

A supervisor in research activities is still considered academic. For example your thesis adviser, even though he/she might have never taught in a classroom setting or course per se, is still considered academic.

 

One thing to judge is based on the kind of letter they are writing. If you really can't find any non-academic person to write you a letter, I guess you can ask your supervisor to write you one. But instead of focusing on how good of a job you did in research, he/she should focus on discussing your character and personality traits which will make you a great doctor. You might be able to use a letter like that. However, there are US schools strictly asking students to submit non-academic letters from your EC experiences. Be careful of that.

[future_doc]

I guess you can ask your supervisor to write you one. But instead of focusing on how good of a job you did in research, he/she should focus on discussing your character and personality traits which will make you a great doctor. You might be able to use a letter like that.

 

There you go. We go with what we have. I think you will be fine.

[tree999]

Here are some requirements I compiled from this past cycle in case it helps:

 

1. Harvard: Up to 6 letters. Must have 2 from science instructors, 1 from non-science instructor

2. Yale: Up to 5 letters. Must have 2 from science instructors, 1 from science or non-science instructor

3. Stanford: Between 3 and 6 letters, any kind

4. University of Chicago: Minimum 3 letters: 2 from science instructors, and 1 other of your choice. Maximum 6.

5. Dartmouth: Minimum of 2 letters

6. Johns Hopkins: 2 letters from science instructors. Any others of your choice.

 

Note that this doesn't include the additional requirement of supervisors' letters if you've done grad work

[neurogirl]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

 

I actually have another question regarding letters from "instructors".

 

I have a lot of undergraduate research experience ( I worked in 3 different labs, twice with an NSERC summer scholarship, and once as an Honours student), and therefore the professors that know me best from undergrad are those research supervisors. I'd rather have them write a personal reference about me, my character, work ethic, research potential and maturity rather than a prof who only knows about my academic performance. Besides, I only decided to go to Med school while I was in graduate school ( I was planning on an academic career before) and thus I've only really kept in touch with my research contacts.

 

So basically I wonder whether the label "science instructors" is a firm one, i.e do I absolutely need to have letters from instructors from the courses I took, that might not know me as well? Wouldn't my GPA already show my academic performance? Would letters from research supervisors from undergrad be accepted?

 

Thanks

[Rach]

So basically I wonder whether the label "science instructors" is a firm one, i.e do I absolutely need to have letters from instructors from the courses I took, that might not know me as well? Wouldn't my GPA already show my academic performance? Would letters from research supervisors from undergrad be accepted?

 

 

From what I have read the instructor letters are really firm. Schools do accept (and expect) letters from research supervisors, but these are usually in addition to the other instructor letter.

I graduated in 2004 and also didn't keep in touch with profs but had to go back and track them down.

[silvermen85]

I had 6 letters, 3 from my graduate profs who I worked with, 1 art prof, 1 EC person and 1 colleague, and it worked for Harvard. Only 2 of of the profs who actually taught me real courses, and non-from my undergraduate.

[tree999]

I had 6 letters, 3 from my graduate profs who I worked with, 1 art prof, 1 EC person and 1 colleague, and it worked for Harvard. Only 2 of of the profs who actually taught me real courses, and non-from my undergraduate.

yeah for sure there's actually a lot of flex. I only used 2 instructors (and they weren't even BCPM), and then I had 2 past employers from the health field (definitely not academic), and then 2 more personal referees. I e-mailed Harvard and Yale when I applied because they asked for 3 instructors, and they said it was fine. e-mail the schools you're interested in just to make sure.

[Rach]

yeah for sure there's actually a lot of flex. I only used 2 instructors (and they weren't even BCPM), and then I had 2 past employers from the health field (definitely not academic), and then 2 more personal referees. I e-mailed Harvard and Yale when I applied because they asked for 3 instructors, and they said it was fine. e-mail the schools you're interested in just to make sure.

 

This is the best way to do it. While it seems that some schools are cool with letters, I know for a fact that others are not willing to let anything slide. You might end up tailoring your school list based on who will allow you to apply with the letters you have.

[neurogirl]

Thanks for the advice guys!

 

Man, it's hard to be a somewhat non-traditional applicant

[tree999]

no, it's definitely better to be non-traditional. the US loves a "story" or an "edge". you'll be thankful later!!

[neurogirl]

no, it's definitely better to be non-traditional. the US loves a "story" or an "edge". you'll be thankful later!!

 

I definitely hope so