Dilemma.. Be harsh.

[Anon1989]

Hello fellow medical school applicants.

 

I am currently faced with an annoying problem.

 

Here are my stats:

I am going into the fourth year at UofT right now and my cGPA is 3.65 (**** you chm220 & psl302). My UT OMSAS is 3.79, best two years OMSAS is 3.76ish. My GPA has a rising trend.

 

I took the MCAT on June 17th and got my score back today which turned out to be 10(P), 9(V), 11 (, O. This is my second attempt at writing the MCAT. My first try was 10,9,11 Q from this January. The writing section went down the second time and I don't know how problematic this will be.

 

My EC's are normal: executive positions, hospital volunteering for 3 years, 5 research positions, 1 publication, 1 paper submitted for publication, few awards here and there, varsity fencing, some volunteer work (translation) for the Ukrainian embassy.

 

LOR's: excellent.

 

Problem:

I have completed my primaries and am ready to submit. I planned to be marked as complete at each school by the end of August.

 

However, with these stats, I have no hope whatsoever in Canada.

 

Option 1:

Should I (grit my teeth) rewrite the MCAT in September (while the material is relatively fresh)? This way, I may have a fighting chance in Canada this cycle but I'll have absolutely no hope for US schools as I'll be marked as complete in late November. I plan to apply broadly (from the maritimes all the way to Alberta).

 

Option 2:

Should I apply to US schools this cycle with my current stats and rewrite the MCAT in May 2011?

 

I know US schools don't smile upon re-applicants so would applying this year with my current stats actually hinder me from getting into med school in the future?

 

Sorry for the long post but I was very desperate..

 

Thank you for your help.

[manduki]

Hello Anon,

 

I am in almost the EXACT same situation as you. (UT, 4th year, similarish GPA). Though my MCAT scores were somewhat higher, my verbal was a 9, excluding me from most of the schools in Ontario.

 

I'm not sure what I'll be doing as well, but I'm leaning towards Option 1.

 

Btw, if you choose option 2, why don't you rewrite in January? Gives you the entire summer off to do something else.

 

As well, would it be plausible to update the US schools on your MCAT if you have not yet heard from them (or have been placed on a wait list)?

 

But best of luck to you.. hope to see you around in classes next year

 

edit: are those EC's normal for a traditional applicant?! They seem quite impressive for an undergrad!

[Anon1989]

Thank you. GL to you.

 

Any reason you're going for option 1?

 

Are we allowed to upgrade our MCAT marks like that after our file has been marked as completed?

 

Any other thoughts guys? I really need advisors.

[charmer08]

why don't you have hope at uoft? ppl do get in with a 3.79... it never hurts to try

[thirty6ix]

Thank you. GL to you.

 

Any reason you're going for option 1?

 

Are we allowed to upgrade our MCAT marks like that after our file has been marked as completed?

 

Any other thoughts guys? I really need advisors.

As I understand it, American schools will generally only look at your MCAT once. However, for some schools, you can request that they look at your current score, even if you have one pending. Again, if you do better the second time, they won't take this into consideration.

 

For example, I wrote my MCAT in 2007 and did alright for American schools, but since I want to boost my Canadian app, I'm re-writing in two weeks. However, my secondary app has been marked complete at Boston, because I was able to indicate that I wanted them to look at my application right away. Baylor and I believe SUNY Upstate will do this as well, and probably more -- you have to call each school to find out their policy. FYI, Einstein will absolutely wait until every last MCAT score is in before reviewing your file.

 

Hope that helps.

[Anon1989]

why don't you have hope at uoft? ppl do get in with a 3.79... it never hurts to try

 

Thank you guys for the responses.

 

I am going to try UofT this cycle along with American schools.

 

This would maximize my chances of getting in this year right?

 

As oppsed to redoing mcat and applying broadly in Canada. I guess if I sat down with a different set of books (maybe give EK or Kaplan a try), I might do better.

 

I guess my question is do I stand any chance at all with my current scores in the US?

[Anon1989]

As I understand it, American schools will generally only look at your MCAT once. However, for some schools, you can request that they look at your current score, even if you have one pending. Again, if you do better the second time, they won't take this into consideration.

 

For example, I wrote my MCAT in 2007 and did alright for American schools, but since I want to boost my Canadian app, I'm re-writing in two weeks. However, my secondary app has been marked complete at Boston, because I was able to indicate that I wanted them to look at my application right away. Baylor and I believe SUNY Upstate will do this as well, and probably more -- you have to call each school to find out their policy. FYI, Einstein will absolutely wait until every last MCAT score is in before reviewing your file.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the information! But Most of the lower tiers probably hold your apps until you get your MCAT scores.

[Mashmetoo]

Hello fellow medical school applicants.

 

I am currently faced with an annoying problem.

 

Here are my stats:

I am going into the fourth year at UofT right now and my cGPA is 3.65 (**** you chm220 & psl302). My UT OMSAS is 3.79, best two years OMSAS is 3.76ish. My GPA has a rising trend.

 

I took the MCAT on June 17th and got my score back today which turned out to be 10(P), 9(V), 11 (, O. This is my second attempt at writing the MCAT. My first try was 10,9,11 Q from this January. The writing section went down the second time and I don't know how problematic this will be.

 

My EC's are normal: executive positions, hospital volunteering for 3 years, 5 research positions, 1 publication, 1 paper submitted for publication, few awards here and there, varsity fencing, some volunteer work (translation) for the Ukrainian embassy.

 

LOR's: excellent.

 

Problem:

I have completed my primaries and am ready to submit. I planned to be marked as complete at each school by the end of August.

 

However, with these stats, I have no hope whatsoever in Canada.

 

Option 1:

Should I (grit my teeth) rewrite the MCAT in September (while the material is relatively fresh)? This way, I may have a fighting chance in Canada this cycle but I'll have absolutely no hope for US schools as I'll be marked as complete in late November. I plan to apply broadly (from the maritimes all the way to Alberta).

 

Option 2:

Should I apply to US schools this cycle with my current stats and rewrite the MCAT in May 2011?

 

I know US schools don't smile upon re-applicants so would applying this year with my current stats actually hinder me from getting into med school in the future?

 

Sorry for the long post but I was very desperate..

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Well, if 1) you wouldn't mind waiting a year, 2) you think you can do better on the MCAT, 3) prefer Canadian schools over American schools, then you probably should redo the mcat and try another year.

 

IF on the other hand, you really want to get into med school THIS CYCLE, your gpa/MCAT is MORE than sufficient to apply and be accepted to an Osteopathic (DO) medical school in the USA.

[Anon1989]

Well, if 1) you wouldn't mind waiting a year, 2) you think you can do better on the MCAT, 3) prefer Canadian schools over American schools, then you probably should redo the mcat and try another year.

 

IF on the other hand, you really want to get into med school THIS CYCLE, your gpa/MCAT is MORE than sufficient to apply and be accepted to an Osteopathic (DO) medical school in the USA.

 

Read your DO posts (thanks for posting such detailed notes btw) and seriously considered this. However, I am set on an MD degree as I would like to keep my options open for returning to my home country to practice.

 

Thank you for your response. Do you think I have a very slim chance of getting into US or UofT with my current stats?

[Mashmetoo]

Read your DO posts (thanks for posting such detailed notes btw) and seriously considered this. However, I am set on an MD degree as I would like to keep my options open for returning to my home country to practice.

 

Thank you for your response. Do you think I have a very slim chance of getting into US or UofT with my current stats?

 

It definitely is possible, although it will be extremely difficult. 9 is usually the lowest that UofT will accept for any MCAT section, and a 9 is quite low for a Canadian if you'll be applying to MD schools. You should be prepared for the emotional roller coaster ride that is about to come within the next 9 months if you did apply with your current stats (i.e., be ready to accept many many rejections from schools... )

 

But on a word of optimism, a suitable analogy for applying to med school in the US/Canada would be like SETI (The search for extraterrestrial intelligence), if you don't search for radio signals for signs of intelligence out there, your chance of detecting alien life is 0. If you did search for radio signals, however small the chance, there will be the possibility of detecting extraterrestrial life - which will be greater than 0.

 

So, if you have to redo mcat to apply this cycle - do it! Do what you have to do to get where you want to be

[Anon1989]

It definitely is possible, although it will be extremely difficult. 9 is usually the lowest that UofT will accept for any MCAT section, and a 9 is quite low for a Canadian if you'll be applying to MD schools. You should be prepared for the emotional roller coaster ride that is about to come within the next 9 months if you did apply with your current stats (i.e., be ready to accept many many rejections from schools... )

 

But on a word of optimism, a suitable analogy for applying to med school in the US/Canada would be like SETI (The search for extraterrestrial intelligence), if you don't search for radio signals for signs of intelligence out there, your chance of detecting alien life is 0. If you did search for radio signals, however small the chance, there will be the possibility of detecting extraterrestrial life - which will be greater than 0.

 

So, if you have to redo mcat to apply this cycle - do it! Do what you have to do to get where you want to be

 

LOL. I surely hope I'll be more successful than SETI

 

But thank you very much. After applying this year and redoing my MCATs I will most likely choose the DO path if the MD path fails.

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Please stay on the forums so I can bug you next year!

[bloh]

Well right now I'd say you really only have a chance at UofT (forget about uofc/uofa). If you aced the MCAT, you'd open up yourself to a few more Ontario schools. You really have to consider a number of things:

 

1. Can you afford American schools?

2. Are you ok with practicing medicine in the states? Coming back to Canada is no guarantee.

 

3. Are you in a hurry and why? Would it be the end of the world to take some time off, keep retaking the MCAT until you get a reasonable score? Something that isn't mentioned (but in my opinion is absolutely critical) is the psychological effect of simply applying. It's ****ing brutal. You apply in the fall, then you wait many months, get an interview, wait a few more months, do your interview and then must wait many months still and then potentially get rejected. The entire process takes nearly a year and it isn't easy. If you are in limbo and not doing anything meaningful it is incredibly exhausting.

 

4. Are you open to research at all? I will never recommend graduate school simply for the sake of helping you get into school because it isn't really the most efficient use of time if that's your end-goal. But graduate school keeps you busy and gives you a purpose in life while you ramp up your application.

[Anon1989]

Thank you for your honest response. Should I not apply to the Eastern schools as well?

 

1. Yes, my family and I have been saving up for my education. (Of course we'd prefer a Canadian school but an American school works just as well.)

 

2. I'm not looking for a guarantee but I'd like the option to come back. From what I researched, MD's from America have a fairly high chance to practice FM in Canada.

 

3. I would like to get into medical school asap but I don't mind waiting another year. I do plan to rewrite in May (or january if I find the time). I don't mind the mental put-downs. I do plan on trying another cycle so I'll have the primaries + secondaries basically all ready right? If I get in this year great, if not it won't be a complete waste.

 

4. I am open to research and have considered this option as well. Still pondering but thinking of doing a 5th year rather than a 2 year Masters program.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Well right now I'd say you really only have a chance at UofT (forget about uofc/uofa). If you aced the MCAT, you'd open up yourself to a few more Ontario schools. You really have to consider a number of things:

 

1. Can you afford American schools?

2. Are you ok with practicing medicine in the states? Coming back to Canada is no guarantee.

 

3. Are you in a hurry and why? Would it be the end of the world to take some time off, keep retaking the MCAT until you get a reasonable score? Something that isn't mentioned (but in my opinion is absolutely critical) is the psychological effect of simply applying. It's ****ing brutal. You apply in the fall, then you wait many months, get an interview, wait a few more months, do your interview and then must wait many months still and then potentially get rejected. The entire process takes nearly a year and it isn't easy. If you are in limbo and not doing anything meaningful it is incredibly exhausting.

 

4. Are you open to research at all? I will never recommend graduate school simply for the sake of helping you get into school because it isn't really the most efficient use of time if that's your end-goal. But graduate school keeps you busy and gives you a purpose in life while you ramp up your application.

[cardiomegaly]

OP: I would give Canada 2 or 3 applications before considering the States/international.

 

Your ECs seem strong and if you dedicate some time to improving your MCAT, you should at least interview at a few schools if you apply broadly. Honestly, you're going into 4th year now (meaning you're still young) and I think the necessary improvements can be made within a couple years.

 

It's not like you are one of those posters who has absolutely no choice but to go to the states/carribean/australia. If you think about it, is it worth it to you to take a couple extra years to earn a spot at a Canadian school rather than spend the next half decade worrying yourself sick about the debt you are accumulating and if you will end up with a residency position at all? not to mention a residency position in a specialty and location you like.

 

There are lots of people in my class who needed more than one application cycle to get in, but I'm sure it was worth the temporary heartbreak and effort to end up in Canada.

[Mashmetoo]

OP: I would give Canada 2 or 3 applications before considering the States/international.

 

Your ECs seem strong and if you dedicate some time to improving your MCAT, you should at least interview at a few schools if you apply broadly. Honestly, you're going into 4th year now (meaning you're still young) and I think the necessary improvements can be made within a couple years.

 

It's not like you are one of those posters who has absolutely no choice but to go to the states/carribean/australia. If you think about it, is it worth it to you to take a couple extra years to earn a spot at a Canadian school rather than spend the next half decade worrying yourself sick about the debt you are accumulating and if you will end up with a residency position at all? not to mention a residency position in a specialty and location you like.

 

There are lots of people in my class who needed more than one application cycle to get in, but I'm sure it was worth the temporary heartbreak and effort to end up in Canada.

 

Well, I agree with most of what you said. Applying 2-3 cycles in Canada only works if you actually DID end up in a Canadian med school. There are equal examples of Canadians who did apply for 2-3 cycles, finished a Masters, PhD in that time, and STILL did not end up in a Canadian med school. At that point, the only thing on your mind would be how you should have just gone to the US/Australia/Ireland/Caribbean 2-3 years ago, and you would almost be done by now. The one thing more important than getting into med school is your YOUTH. You'll be in your 20s only once. It really isn't worth it to be "wasting" 2-3 years of productivity all in an effort to TRY to get into somewhere you want to be, but ultimately, not making it. Now, I'm always big on strategy, Sun Tsu in his book, the art of war, said: "know yourself, know your enemy, and you will forever be victorious". This applies to your situation. What sacrifices are you willing to make to fulfill your dream? What events are you absolutely not ready to accept ? It all depends on how well you know yourself

[Anon1989]

OP: I would give Canada 2 or 3 applications before considering the States/international.

 

Your ECs seem strong and if you dedicate some time to improving your MCAT, you should at least interview at a few schools if you apply broadly. Honestly, you're going into 4th year now (meaning you're still young) and I think the necessary improvements can be made within a couple years.

 

It's not like you are one of those posters who has absolutely no choice but to go to the states/carribean/australia. If you think about it, is it worth it to you to take a couple extra years to earn a spot at a Canadian school rather than spend the next half decade worrying yourself sick about the debt you are accumulating and if you will end up with a residency position at all? not to mention a residency position in a specialty and location you like.

 

There are lots of people in my class who needed more than one application cycle to get in, but I'm sure it was worth the temporary heartbreak and effort to end up in Canada.

 

Thank you very much for this post. Made me ponder my career path again. I am going to apply to America this cycle + Toronto. I will try my best to redo the MCATs in January and I'll have my scores by Feb. I doubt with my stats I'll have any acceptances by then. If the MCATs are good, I'll wait another round to apply to mid-tier US + broadly in Canada. If (God forbid,) I end up with a 9 again I'll take whatever I can this year. A 3000 backup plan (US apps) seems to be o.k. in the scope of things.

 

Thanks a lot for your honesty.

[Anon1989]

Well, I agree with most of what you said. Applying 2-3 cycles in Canada only works if you actually DID end up in a Canadian med school. There are equal examples of Canadians who did apply for 2-3 cycles, finished a Masters, PhD in that time, and STILL did not end up in a Canadian med school. At that point, the only thing on your mind would be how you should have just gone to the US/Australia/Ireland/Caribbean 2-3 years ago, and you would almost be done by now. The one thing more important than getting into med school is your YOUTH. You'll be in your 20s only once. It really isn't worth it to be "wasting" 2-3 years of productivity all in an effort to TRY to get into somewhere you want to be, but ultimately, not making it. Now, I'm always big on strategy, Sun Tsu in his book, the art of war, said: "know yourself, know your enemy, and you will forever be victorious". This applies to your situation. What sacrifices are you willing to make to fulfill your dream? What events are you absolutely not ready to accept ? It all depends on how well you know yourself

 

Thanks again for your insight. I agree with you. I'm only going to be in my twenties once and most of that is going to be eaten up by med school even if I get in this cycle. Perhaps my research was insufficient but the future of US-trained doctors practicing in Canada seems rather hopeful. Further, if I wish to return to Ukraine, a US MD would probably work in greather favour for me.