What does a DO ACTUALLY do?

[sky_blue2000]

Ive read soooooooo many posts on DO vs carib schools...and this is kind in that direction.

BUT I want to know what a DO actually does when they see a patient? I am looking in that path, but I really don't want to touch people for an hour and figure out what may be the problem. I know there are DOs who move away from the OMM way and do pretty much what a MD does.

 

I just wanted a more detailed explanation of how a DO can do a AGME residency and move forward in a career that is the SAME as any other MD.

 

I am Canadian, and my citizenship is also another reason why I am looking more into DO than carib MD. Being Canadian will be a barrier no matter where I go, but I feel it will be easier as a DO opposed to FMG.

[AnxiousBoy]

I can't comment much on this topic but from what I see, DO's and MD's have little to no difference when they are in practice. Sure they learn some OMM stuff, but from what I hear, many just learn it for the exam and then forever eject that knowledge from their head. If the DO's go into anything like surgery, radiology, or whatever else, they will never use the DO-specific knowledge. Even in primary care, they will just use conventional medicine for pretty much everything, and only when nothing helps will they tell their patients that they can try some DO manipulations (without the guarantee that it would help, of course). I don't know, it sounds all too weird to me, but I'm ignorant and can't be objective about it. Something about rubbing your ear and your cholecystitis getting better or whatever the deal was just sounds a little uneasy for me.

 

PS: My home hospital is a major center for DO training even though our school is MD. I see a lot of DO residents and attending whom we learn from and they're mixed in their opinions. Those who practice OMM swear by it while those who don't say its full of rubbish.

 

PPS: Clinical training for DO's suck majorly. They have no hospital so they seed out their students to hospitals around the country. They have no structure in their program, so they just stick the students with preceptors and they learn by osmosis, apparently. The preceptors aren't paid to take on students so they are far and few in between. For example, there are just as many DO students at my hospital (from like 6 different schools) as their are MD students. During the surgical clerkship, we had 5 preceptors because the state pays them 15K/year to be preceptors. It's a one-on-one preceptorship. There was 1 surgical preceptor "volunteering" to take on students. He got 2 med students and 2 residents all at once for every rotation. Second, we get structured lectures and other support from our school that has a physical presence there. The DO students have no support and no lectures, and I've even talked with a few who's very discontent with their learning potential.

[Mashmetoo]

Ive read soooooooo many posts on DO vs carib schools...and this is kind in that direction.

BUT I want to know what a DO actually does when they see a patient? I am looking in that path, but I really don't want to touch people for an hour and figure out what may be the problem. I know there are DOs who move away from the OMM way and do pretty much what a MD does.

 

I just wanted a more detailed explanation of how a DO can do a AGME residency and move forward in a career that is the SAME as any other MD.

 

I am Canadian, and my citizenship is also another reason why I am looking more into DO than carib MD. Being Canadian will be a barrier no matter where I go, but I feel it will be easier as a DO opposed to FMG.

 

DOs end up in ACGME by doing USMLE 1,2,3, then applying to ACGME residencies, just like the MDs. You can choose to incorporate OMM into your practice, or not, the choice is really up to you. For instance, if you are a MD, you'd recommend your patient to a physical therapist for muscular problems, but if you are a DO, you can basically treat that problem yourself (and increase your income if I might add), along with any other somatic dysfunction. I tend to think of OMM as a useful tool, as an analogy, you may not always need your scissors, but it's nice to have a pair laying around.

 

There's more Canadians doing DO than you might think, I've met quite a few dual citizens in my class this year, most have left Canada for a long time.

[Mashmetoo]

I can't comment much on this topic but from what I see, DO's and MD's have little to no difference when they are in practice. Sure they learn some OMM stuff, but from what I hear, many just learn it for the exam and then forever eject that knowledge from their head. If the DO's go into anything like surgery, radiology, or whatever else, they will never use the DO-specific knowledge. Even in primary care, they will just use conventional medicine for pretty much everything, and only when nothing helps will they tell their patients that they can try some DO manipulations (without the guarantee that it would help, of course). I don't know, it sounds all too weird to me, but I'm ignorant and can't be objective about it. Something about rubbing your ear and your cholecystitis getting better or whatever the deal was just sounds a little uneasy for me.

 

PS: My home hospital is a major center for DO training even though our school is MD. I see a lot of DO residents and attending whom we learn from and they're mixed in their opinions. Those who practice OMM swear by it while those who don't say its full of rubbish.

 

PPS: Clinical training for DO's suck majorly. They have no hospital so they seed out their students to hospitals around the country. They have no structure in their program, so they just stick the students with preceptors and they learn by osmosis, apparently. The preceptors aren't paid to take on students so they are far and few in between. For example, there are just as many DO students at my hospital (from like 6 different schools) as their are MD students. During the surgical clerkship, we had 5 preceptors because the state pays them 15K/year to be preceptors. It's a one-on-one preceptorship. There was 1 surgical preceptor "volunteering" to take on students. He got 2 med students and 2 residents all at once for every rotation. Second, we get structured lectures and other support from our school that has a physical presence there. The DO students have no support and no lectures, and I've even talked with a few who's very discontent with their learning potential.

 

I agree with most of what you said. The part about lack of structure during clinical is imo dependent on the DO school in question. e.g., Western U has a very structured program from what I'm hearing, while I'm sure there'll be programs with less ideal structured clinicals.

 

I'm assuming you currently attend a US MD school? It sounds very DO friendly. Mind telling us the name of that school?

[AnxiousBoy]

I agree with most of what you said. The part about lack of structure during clinical is imo dependent on the DO school in question. e.g., Western U has a very structured program from what I'm hearing, while I'm sure there'll be programs with less ideal structured clinicals.

 

I'm assuming you currently attend a US MD school? It sounds very DO friendly. Mind telling us the name of that school?

 

A little correction to the MD residency. You write the USMLE step 1 and maybe step 2, not 1,2,3 before residency. Some program will require you to take step 2 while others will be more lenient but will expect you to write it soon after you get into their residency. You'll have to do the relevant research to find out which program does what. Step 3 is written by all residents, so once you're in the program, you'll follow the same track as everyone else.

 

I go to SUNY Upstate. The Syracuse campus is not DO friendly (it's university hospital), but the Binghamton campus is (community hospital).

 

I would suggest for those applying to DO to thoroughly do your research on the program itself. I understand that desperate measures may be taken and you'll just be happy ending up anywhere but then don't be surprised with some of the inadequacies down the road. The DO schools have been expanding like wildfire, perhaps to increase their #'s so that they can have more weight and say, but expansions have a lot of inherent problems that runs hand in hand. Sure it's easy to build larger classrooms and shove more kids in them, but when it comes to clerkships, it's not so easy put together. Many of these schools have built second and third campuses half way across the country, which would seem to defy any sort of satellite system. I'd be weary of the new campuses and the new schools that are cropping up everywhere. One guy from Touro, a really recently established school, had absolutely nothing good to say about his school. I have friends in Western, a recently expanded class size, who were left all by themselves to find their own 3rd year clerkships, not to mention the fact that the class was so big that after 2 years, 2 of my friends in the same class did not even know each other. More established schools like NYCOM or LECOM seem a little smoother, but they again run into the problem I've already outlined in my previous post.

[whattodonow]

Just make sure you are okay with being a DO. This is the fundamental fact, don't do DO as a backup. Its the same amount of work, money, time and energy as an MD/MBBS. However, if you have weighted the options and feel that this path is for you, then great. Remember in Canada it will be tough, not nearly as easy as it appears on paper. You need to be hired at a hospital, and as the question you posed, alot of ppl here don't know anything about DO.

[moo]

Just make sure you are okay with being a DO. This is the fundamental fact, don't do DO as a backup. Its the same amount of work, money, time and energy as an MD/MBBS. However, if you have weighted the options and feel that this path is for you, then great. Remember in Canada it will be tough, not nearly as easy as it appears on paper. You need to be hired at a hospital, and as the question you posed, alot of ppl here don't know anything about DO.

 

If you're a family doc, you do NOT need to be 'hired' at a hospital. You typically work at a clinic. People are so desperate for physicians, clinics do NOT care if you're a DO. Typically, you JOIN a practice and are not employed by one. At one of my clinics in Vancouver, I work with a DO (the only DO in the lower mainland).

 

If you need hospital privileges, almost all hospitals will grant you the privileges, whether you're from carib, DO, overseas, etc., as long as you are registered with the college and are competent (are up to date in ACLS, ATLS, etc. depending on what you plan on do with the hospital privileges).

 

If you're wanting to work as an academic, that may be different. But most physicians (FPs and specialists) are in private practice, i.e., you're your own boss so this does not apply for the most part.