MCAT

[Guest druggist]

Hello everybody!!!!

 

So, heres my dilemma. This summer I have been offered an amazing research position (and I have never done one!) that also may accompany a great studentship award. However, I hear that its full time work, and I also plan to take the MCAT course this summer with princeton review and write in August. To greater complicate things, I only have the 1 semester orgo for biology students and that wont cut it with some schools, and hence I could take that instead of the research project. THUS, heres my dilemma...

1) Take the summer position, be a lab rat, love it, and maybe be able to add that to my med app too!

2) Take the course and year long orgo in the summer

3) Take the course and forget the other nonsense!

 

Help would be greatly appreciated on this one guys!

Cheers

Druggy

[Guest Steve U of T]

I did the Princeton Review course while doing a summer research project full time. I did the Sunday afternoon/Wednesday evening prep class, which didn't conflict with my research at all, and I had plenty of study time otherwise. The night classes are pretty good because a bunch of us would always go out for drinks afterwards.

 

That summer, I got a lot accomplished in the lab, did great on the MCAT, and had a lot of fun too.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Further to the above advice, it's also possible to take the organic chemistry course and complete the Princeton Review course with the intention of writing the August MCAT. What this means is that, if you do well on the organic chemistry course, you'll probably not need to pay too much attention to the minutiae of the organic chemistry material offered by the Princeton Review. Additionally, you should be able to do very well on the organic chemistry questions appearing on the actual MCAT.

 

Although you have to tailor your decision to what best matches your own abilities and desired level of achievement, it sounds like the research opportunity you have is fairly unique compared to your organic chemistry and Princeton Review courses. Given this, as well as your apparent fervour for research, why pass up a good research opportunity? Many schools will permit you to apply to their medical programs while taking one of their prerequisite courses during the year of application, so it would be possible for you to apply to a number of schools next year, having only a partial credit in organic chemistry (you need to check each school's policy before heeding this advice). So with all that in mind, overall, my leaning would be with Steve's post, above.

 

(By the way, I managed the Princeton Review course (resulting in a completed August MCAT) with a full-time job and a full-year organic chemistry course a couple of summers ago. So the most extreme and unmentioned of your options is achievable. )

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest druggist]

Thanks for the expedient replies everyone, I truly do appreciate the life stories, as they help put my problem into real life context. Im wondering how you, Kirsteen, were able to do a orgo course (most often during hte day), do a full-time job (most often during the day, though possibly at night), and the princeton review course (either day or night). Hmmm.. confusing, but definately inspiring. I would like to do the research, not only to some what Im worth but to put my pharmacology know hows to the test, and also to see what academia may be like (the daily research grind...). If I could manage good MCAT scores, good orgo grades (as Ive already taken bio orgo), and also make it in research, that would be ideal, though seemingly impossible.

Thoughts?

Druggy

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

My job offered a touch of flexibility, so although I pulled in 40+ hours per week, I could also squeeze in a daytime organic chemistry course. (The Princeton Review classes were wedged in on evenings and weekends.)

 

However, please note, although I juggled all of the above, bear in mind that you have to realistically balance your commitments while attaining a level of achievement in each of the activities that satisfies you. Dropping one of them, for example, may have helped me devote a little more time to Physics, which bit me in the bum during that iteration of the MCAT.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest 007]

I had a full-time research job and did the Kaplan course last summer and I did well on the MCAT. At Queen's the full year equivalent to orgo is offerred in 6 weeks (full days), so that would give you plenty of time to focus on the MCAT after that, but you may not be able to do the research job, which sounds like an amazing opportunity. Most of the people who started off in my Kaplan course who were simultaneously taking orgo ended up deciding to wait and write the MCAT next summer and focus on orgo and their jobs.

 

Also, my commitment to my research job definitely suffered because of my overwhelming drive to succeed on the MCAT.

 

I don't know that any of the above will help, but good luck with your decision!

 

007

[Guest blinknoodle]

As others have mentioned, you definitely need to consider your own abilities and even any other commitments you'd like to do in the summer. I also worked full-time in research, took Princeton and the MCAT all in one summer. But I also know that other students in my Princeton class only worked part-time or only 2 months prior to the MCAT. One of my friends didn't work at all, and only focused on the MCAT (even though she had great scores, this was one of her regrets).

 

There are lots of things to consider, but I suggest finding out more about the research position -- will you be able to work independently, can you set your own schedule, can you only work 3 months or event 30 hours/week instead of 40 hours/week or the full 4 months. This may, in fact, be dictated by the studentship you mentioned, but your supervisor might be more flexible.

 

Good luck with your decision.

 

-blinknoodle

[Guest druggist]

Hello again!

 

Thanks again everyone for your replies, they are much appreciated. Okay, the research position runs 9 to 5, and since I am applying, there is a chance that I won't even get a summer studentship (though I hear alot of positive attitudes about it). This prof likes the lab hours to be kept this way, though I do believe that times will arise where I can glance at my books while waiting for this or that--etc. My applications will be largely aimed at Dalhousie and Memorial, as I am a new brunswick resident, so the others I will apply to (which don't require organic), would be Ontario Schools (again that dont require full year organic, just bio-organic) and toronto. This leaves out some important schools which I could be applying to, and thus worries me, however the position in the summer woudl be fun, educational, and look good on my app. So again Im confused. My GPA is about 3.8-3.9/4 for my best years, Ive done volunteering (though mostly only 3 hour a week positions for the last 3 years and thus I guess is a minimal devotion), extracurrics not spectacular (intermurals, some clubs, etc.). Therefore, a research position may furhter help my app as I dont have this experience (along with the interesting aspect).

Cheers

Druggy

[Guest 007]

Could you do the research and the MCAT this summer and then do the orgo during the actual school year next year?

 

You could also apply to the schools for which you are eligible without the orgo, and then if you don't get it (which i hope doesn't happen your GPA and extracurriculars seem good to me) then you could take the orgo in the summer of 2005 and expand your applications the following year.

 

Just a thought.

007

[Guest druggist]

007,

 

I can't really take orgo next year, as half the year is a practical! This imposes quite a few limitations as to which courses I could attempt to add on to what I already have to take (I am in the B.Sc. (Pharm.) program). Plus, the school frowns on taking "extra courses" and the app to do such a thing is a @#%$ storm. I applied to take physics in second year on top of my pharm courses as this was really the only MCAT science course that I wished to have, and didn't find out until the first week of school that it was fine. Anyway, I do think that taking the position should the studentship work out would be the best plan, and as you said, broadening my horizons should I not receive entrance to one of the non-full year orgo schools.

 

Thanks for your input guys, it has been very helpful!

Cheers

Druggist

[Guest cptn med]

It sounds like most people took some kind of MCAT prep course. Do you think that it is possible to succeed even if you just practice old tests ect... on your own? Or do you think the official prep is needed because the test is too difficult? I had the impression that it wasn't brutal if you studied well enough.

I work 65-70 hrs/wk in the summer and sort of thought I could succeed without the added class. What do you guys recommend.

Also, I am wondering how much the actual test costs? This is my first time writing and I havn't researched the entire process yet.

Thanks

[Guest Lactic Folly]

I studied on my own and did fine.. it really depends on how well you think you mastered the material when you first learned it, otherwise it's just review and practice, practice. You can go to http://www.aamc.org/mcat to get a feel for what the test is like, and judge how many hours of preparation you need.. it'll be an intense summer, but it has been done. I don't remember the cost off-hand, but it's a couple->few hundred dollars when converted from US dollars.

[Guest cptn med]

Thanks a lot.

[Guest Steve U of T]

There is so much interindividual variability that many people who study on their own will score better than people who have taken a course. In my case, I enjoyed the course, although I know it wasn't necessary to succeed. On the first practice MCAT I wrote, I had zero formal preparation (because the course had just started), but I had recently completed courses in organic chemistry, molecular biology, genetics, and physiology. I scored a 30, which many might consider a decent score (although not good enough for Queen's this year). This shows that the test certainly isn't too difficult for some people to prepare for on their own, but this depends on how they learn best. Of course, a score on a practice test doesn't necessarily translate to a score on the real thing, but it is probably a reasonable approximation. Anyways, after having completed the course, my score improved drastically (39R on the real thing), showing that preparation is beneficial. It's impossible to say what score I would have received studying on my own, but I believe that the course was helpful.

 

However, prep courses will not guarantee you a good score. I know of people in my class who scored in the low 20s, and I'm sure there are people who did worse than that. Again, it's impossible to determine what their scores would have been if they spent that time learning individually, but for some people, the course may have been a waste of time (and money) by teaching what the 'average' student needs to know, and not focusing on each particular student's needs. As a prep course student, you can direct what goes on in the class to a certain extent, but you can't monopolize the instructors' time entirely. Learning on your own, you can tailor your studying to your needs (private tutoring does the same, but is a lot more expensive than a prep course).

 

If you learn best by reading, you may want to save your money and avoid the course. If you learn best by hearing and interacting with others, the course may be for you.

 

Also, I looked it up, and the MCAT costs $190USD (I think that has gone up over the past couple of years)

[Guest cptn med]

Thanks again.

I checked too and I think the 190US is right, plus another 60 for international fees (don't know if they apply or not though). Thats not too bad.

My thing is that I am just really starting physical sciences this year, but I am doing alright catching on (reading is my dominant learning style>opposed to hearing alone). After 1st year chem, bio and physics do you have a grasp of what the MCAT requires or is it way off? I plan on searching it out on the practice sites as well but any info is helpful.

Thanks

[Guest Steve U of T]

The United States, Canada, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands are considered domestic locations, and no international fees are applied.

 

First year physics and chem should give a sufficient background. I don't know where you've taken your bio course, but at U of T, 1st year bio covers evolution, ecology, and behaviour, which is useless for the MCAT. We didn't do molecular and cell bio until second year. If you did molecular/cellular bio in 1st year, as some schools do, you should be alright. Also, an introductory physiology course is highly recommended. Having said all that, I wrote the MCAT after my second year, during which I completed 2nd year organic chem, and 3rd year physiology. Of course, I didn't take these courses as prep for the MCAT, they were required for my program, but they were very helpful. I really didn't learn anything drastically new during the prep course, which allowed me to focus on technique, rather than content.

[Guest Lactic Folly]

A year each of intro biology/general chemistry/organic chemistry/physics were what I found most essential for the MCAT, though physiology (2nd year here for us) is certainly helpful. That said, no course curriculum is likely to cover each and every point listed in the MCAT syllabus, and you may have to study a bit of new stuff on your own in any case.

[Guest CornuAmmonis]

Do you think that it is possible to succeed even if you just practice old tests ect... on your own?

 

I'll be very honest here. I took the MCAT just by using the Kaplan book (not the course). I studied hard and even got some practice tests off my friends who were in the class.

 

Nedless to say, I had to take the MCAT course again, mainly b/c of the VR (which is problematic for most science students).

 

So I decided to grin and bear it and shell out the cash for the Kaplan course. I think it was the best decision I made regarding this issue.

 

Especially since I was working two jobs, this course really helped me get in check. If you're in a the work world or doing research, these courses really help you focus, mainly because they give you the material you need to learn, and saves you the guesswork.

 

On top of that, the endless practice is more than you can get from AAMC. Also, with Princeton and Kaplan you get many of their own tests, but also you get a bunch of AAMC material to practice as well

 

Hope this helps.

[Guest coleflower]

To add another opinion, I decided I didn't want to shell out the cash and time to take the MCAT prep course. My thinking was that I'd already learned the material in school, so I didn't need it taught again. In truth, I've learned that what the course prepares you for is less the material than the style of the test, questions, how to interpret those dreaded VR passages, etc...

I took one of the practice MCATs before starting to study and found it to be feasable, if challenging. This was my real deciding factor to study on my own (from a Kaplan book) and not take the course.

In short, I studied on my own (less than I should have...) but ended up doing well enough to interview at Queen's this year so far. I also know people who took the course and did not make the cut offs. I think it depends a lot on your individual learning style and committment to doing well on the MCAT.

[Guest Ticket]

Having written the MCAT more than once with different preparation styles, both times working full-time, I can confidently say that if you have already taken the appropriate intro courses in school, you can do fine without any expensive prep course.

 

The first time I wrote the exam, I hadn't taken any biology or orgo courses and attempted to learn them on my own. I discovered that studying for the MCAT is not the time to learn a lot of new material - its the time to review and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

 

When I wrote it again, I had taken an orgo course, reviewed the science material for two months and spent the last month doing timed practice tests. I ended up doing WAY better than the first time.

 

The AAMC tests are really the most valuable tool that I found. They are closest to the real thing. Don't waste your time with you bio/phys/chem text: use a review book. And don't neglect the VR section. I spent most of my practice time on that section since I found that section the hardest both times!

[Guest cptn med]

Thats great advice...

I was also wondering: Since in writing the MCAT you are judged against your peers (to my understanding) right? So is there a difference in writing in April or August? Do more people write in Aug? I am trying to figure out if I would have better odds at one time or another.

I am also wondering if you can write twice in the same summer. IE if I didn't like my April scores, could I write again in August?

Thanks

[Guest Lactic Folly]

I doubt there is a significant difference between the two writings- as you said, it is based on your relative performance. A lot of people in the US write in April as well. I don't think there is anything that prevents someone from writing in both April and August; however, if you are writing the MCAT more than three times, you will need to provide documentation that you are applying to medical school.

[Guest 0T6]

Hey cptn med,

I'm in the same boat as you, trying to choose between April and August and it will ultimately depend on my final exam schedule which I'll find in this friday.

Supposedly April is when the top American students write the MCAT so they can go for early acceptance, that said.. most Canadian students write it in August I believe. I'm not sure how much of an effect that would have. Also, you're compared against everyone else who writes your version of the test.

Yes you can write it twice, you receive April scores in June, giving you a month to register for August.

 

Hope that helped

[Guest cptn med]

Thanks guys...

All of that is good to know because there is always comfort in a backup plan.

OT6: So, you write the MCAT against people in the States too? Thats interesting considering what kind of education standards the two countries have. I assumed for some reason that it was a matter of writing against a few hundred other people. It sounds more like now that you write against a few thousand people. So it then becomes that much more difficult.

LacticFolly: You said that you would need to provide proof after three times. Is that three times ever or three times in a certain time span. If it is three times ever than how long can you use your MCAT scores for when applying for school?

Thanks you guys.

[Guest Lactic Folly]

Actually, I think it's against tens of thousands of people (lots of premedders in the US!) but I don't see how the sheer number would make it more difficult to do well. As far as I know, it's three times ever, but it's not a problem to write the exam again as long as you are genuinely applying (and not working for a test prep company or somesuch). Each medical school sets their own requirement for how recent your MCAT scores must be- generally it's a few years.