igeorgex Posted April 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Just because you choose a specialty doesn't mean you get it, even if you passed all your courses. It's the same game as getting into medicine (competition), albeit with a much better safety net. Much of the decision will be made based on your references. And this can be a double-edged sword at McMaster: if you figure pretty early on what you want to specialize in, then having that elective space and earlier opportunity in clerkship will allow you to take advantage of that and get good references. However, if you do not figure out what you want to do and do not spend enough time exploring that field before CaRMS, you may not match into your first choice because of lack of references. That being said, a lot of people do match their first choice without much experience in that field anyway so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitaireAddikt Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Looking at match numbers is always a bit two-sided... yes, in 2010 they had a high first-choice match rate (75% vs 65% avg), but they also had a high % of first choice being family (42.5% vs. 33% avg). edit: Ironically, in 2009... Mac had one of the lower first choice match rates (56.5% vs 63% avg), so it really depends on the individual class make-up and their choices. However, the first choice statistic I cited was for both specialty and location. While family isn't hard to get into in general, I heard it can be a bit competitive based on location (I could be wrong though). I do agree that the match statistics are variable and kind of hard to read into, however it's really the only information we have to go on about whether or not residency directors have an issue with Mac med students... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Yes.. that's the same statistic I refer to in my post. The other statistic (just first choice discipline) is in the 90%'s for practically all schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupeFiasco Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 This poll isn't representative. The OP should have added one more option saying "Yes, but Mac is the ONLY interview I got." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treejuice1 Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 This poll isn't representative. The OP should have added one more option saying "Yes, but Mac is the ONLY interview I got." This is me. I keep going back and forth as to whether or not I think PBL would be a good fit for me. I think I got a bit brainwashed from the excitement of my first and only interview, but now that I've had some time to reflect, there is a part of me that wants to be waitlisted/rejected this year for the opportunity to finish up my undergrad and re-apply broadly with a stronger application Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 That's one of the concerns of applying in third year, you may not have the choice that you could have had if you applied in fourth. Either way, nobody will feel sorry for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGGSaint Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 This is me. I keep going back and forth as to whether or not I think PBL would be a good fit for me. I think I got a bit brainwashed from the excitement of my first and only interview, but now that I've had some time to reflect, there is a part of me that wants to be waitlisted/rejected this year for the opportunity to finish up my undergrad and re-apply broadly with a stronger application An interesting sentiment isn't it? Whatever happens in your case you'll be happy with though. A bit off topic but in retrospect (remember that hindsight is 20/20) I'm glad my application cycle came to an early end pre-interview last year. The opportunity to take time off after ugrad, apply broadly (i.e. more than 1 or 2 schools!) and see your options with the best possible app has been a blessing in disguise.* *Note: do not ever forget how exhausting it is to apply widely (time and money wise...but totally worth it imo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itimebomb2 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Sounds like someone who only interviewed at Mac. What a pathetic cheap shot. I interviewed at all 8 schools I applied to, got accepted to 5 of them (WL at the other 3) and Mac was tied for my first choice (w/ UT which I WL'd at). It's definitely not a reject school. In the end, I couldn't be happier with my decision. Anyone who has the propensity to fall asleep in lecture will find lecture based learning extremely frustratingly low-yield and a huge waste of time. Of course, there are those who succeed in that environment too. Bad residents come from every university - people just find it easy to call out a Mac grad b/c of the non-traditional style. There is certinaly the opportunity to do poorly at mac - I can already tell that a few of my classmates will make mediocre residents at best - but they are having an amazingly relaxing time in medical school - I'm not agreeing with them, but its their choice. I would argue that if you are motivated, the flexibility you're afforded here is head and shoulders above most schools and can ultimately get you ahead (in 3 years vs 4). The time I've spent in ORs and clinics this year makes the clinical experiences I've heard about at UT/Queens/UWO/McGill sound more like candy-striping than medicine. The city isn't anything special, although I would argue its more on the rise than the decline. I don't have enough time to really enjoy my surroundings much anyways so I'm not devastated, but yes, every now and then it would be nice to have the real big city amenities at arms reach rather than having to drive to Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LupeFiasco Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 What a pathetic cheap shot. Hi. HBP would never do that. You probably read his post out of context. He was referring to another poster who was bashing McMaster and it was his/her first post. So HBP called him/her out saying that he/she probably only interviewed at Mac and wants to ruin Mac's reputation so that just in case he/she is on the waitlist, he/she will have a better chance of being accepted. Yeah, you've been on this forum long enough to know which members would do such a thing. HBP certainly is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 The time I've spent in ORs and clinics this year makes the clinical experiences I've heard about at UT/Queens/UWO/McGill sound more like candy-striping than medicine. Be careful with those gratuitious statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyJamesMD Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 What a pathetic cheap shot. Relax, it's a forum. Anyways, though I don't go on pm101 often, I'm glad we have HBP and his/her well-informed comments. Especially the whole Mac getting "matching well". Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychlops1 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hi. HBP would never do that. You probably read his post out of context. He was referring to another poster who was bashing McMaster and it was his/her first post. So HBP called him/her out saying that he/she probably only interviewed at Mac and wants to ruin Mac's reputation so that just in case he/she is on the waitlist, he/she will have a better chance of being accepted. Yeah, you've been on this forum long enough to know which members would do such a thing. HBP certainly is not one of them. I've been around this forum quite a while (not long as a member), and I'd agree that HBP seems to have tons of good input and info. That doesn't change the fact that I take offense to what was said, and that it was at least a bit out of line. I realize the opinion I shared was rather strong, but it is the true sense I get from others and got from the short time I was in hamilton, and it is by no means a rare view of that school. On the same note, a comment like this "The time I've spent in ORs and clinics this year makes the clinical experiences I've heard about at UT/Queens/UWO/McGill sound more like candy-striping than medicine." is no less of a slam to those schools, and no less of a personal opinion, so I don't feel so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igeorgex Posted April 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I'd be pretty happy if everyone who interviewed at Mac and other schools accepted their offer at the other school. leaves more room for people like me with only the one shot at med this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatso Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I had two interviews but I was really smitten with McMaster. Like many, I wasn't too sure about the main "cons" if you could call them that (the summers or lack thereof and not knowing how the learning style will jive with my personality). I really got the impression at the interview weekend that these concerns are minimal risk, particularly for a non-traditional student like me who hasn't sat in a lecture in over two years and wouldn't mind wrapping things up in three years. At the end of the day though, I'll take any offer I can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itimebomb2 Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hi. HBP would never do that. You probably read his post out of context. He was referring to another poster who was bashing McMaster and it was his/her first post. So HBP called him/her out saying that he/she probably only interviewed at Mac and wants to ruin Mac's reputation so that just in case he/she is on the waitlist, he/she will have a better chance of being accepted. Yeah, you've been on this forum long enough to know which members would do such a thing. HBP certainly is not one of them. Fair enough. Just trying to stick up for the underdog here... Be careful with those gratuitious statements. The comment about clinical experiences was supposed to be a light-hearted way of saying that it is a strength of Mac's during the preclerkship. Sure, it might sound a little arrogant but hey, I'm defending my school's honour here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 Oh so that post was actually directed at me? I thought you just misquoted... Hopefully you go back and re-read the context of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBP Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 I've been around this forum quite a while (not long as a member), and I'd agree that HBP seems to have tons of good input and info. That doesn't change the fact that I take offense to what was said, and that it was at least a bit out of line. I realize the opinion I shared was rather strong, but it is the true sense I get from others and got from the short time I was in hamilton, and it is by no means a rare view of that school. On the same note, a comment like this "The time I've spent in ORs and clinics this year makes the clinical experiences I've heard about at UT/Queens/UWO/McGill sound more like candy-striping than medicine." is no less of a slam to those schools, and no less of a personal opinion, so I don't feel so bad. Hey, It's just that we've seen that type of behaviour before (most notable: wuckfestern from last year). It occurred closer to May, but people were still trying to bash schools in hope to increase their chances. Usually these people use a throwaway account (making a strong derogatory post on your first day). Hopefully I was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted April 7, 2011 Report Share Posted April 7, 2011 The comment about clinical experiences was supposed to be a light-hearted way of saying that it is a strength of Mac's during the preclerkship. Sure, it might sound a little arrogant but hey, I'm defending my school's honour here! At McGill they have about 5-6 whole months of clinical shadowing/observership/clinical skill classes in preclerkship called introduction to clinical medicine (ICM). So McGill has an excellent clinical exposure before clerkship (one of the best in the country I would say). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itimebomb2 Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 At McGill they have about 5-6 whole months of clinical shadowing/observership/clinical skill classes in preclerkship called introduction to clinical medicine (ICM). So McGill has an excellent clinical exposure before clerkship (one of the best in the country I would say). My best friend who I lived with for three years in undergrad goes to McGill... I'm perfectly aware of what this ICM program entails. I stand by my initial statement. My friend would certainly agree as well. I will say though that Mac's anatomy curriculum is an absolute joke. We're basically left to learn it on our own, and with close to no opportunity to work on our own cadaver. There are prosections which are extremely helpful, but of course its not quite the same as having your own body to cut into and explore. For better or for worse, we all feel a little ripped off at Mac for anatomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 My best friend who I lived with for three years in undergrad goes to McGill... I'm perfectly aware of what this ICM program entails. I stand by my initial statement. My friend would certainly agree as well. Can you please elaborate then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itimebomb2 Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Can you please elaborate then? I'm not here to pick on specific schools, but in general - most med schools offer some (some more, some less) shadowing-type opportunities to preclerks which most entail watching and taking a few histories at most. Understandable since teaching hospitals are usually overwhelmed with learners, and its often hard enough get all your procedure experiences in as a clerk. The difference at Mac is that we have a huge amount of flex-time - that is, 2-3 days each week where we literally have no class or other obligations - we can use these times for anything we want - some people do nothing, others obtain clinical experiences. This flexibility affords us the opportunity to travel to non-teaching hospitals, or to work with clinicians long enough to forge enough of a relationship to be trusted with greater responsibilities. There's no way you can get that sort of time in with the 9-4 schedules every other school has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 ^^ Yeah Im just finishing at Mac, and your are right. Personally I didnt really do anything clinical in pre-clerkship (I 'did nothing' as you said)...and I was at absolutely no disadvantage when I got to clerkship. There were people in my class who followed doctors around almost every week, and they had fun and seemed to enjoy it, but they would also admit it doesnt really help you long term, except to just see what a specialty is like at a superficial level (which can help in some ways) My point is sort of that pre-clerk clinical stuff is really not that important. Doing some shadowing is truely sort of a drop in the bucket once you get to clerkship. People had fun with it I guess, but dear god, dont choose your med school based on this lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itimebomb2 Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 ^^ Yeah Im just finishing at Mac, and your are right. Personally I didnt really do anything clinical in pre-clerkship (I 'did nothing' as you said)...and I was at absolutely no disadvantage when I got to clerkship. There were people in my class who followed doctors around almost every week, and they had fun and seemed to enjoy it, but they would also admit it doesnt really help you long term, except to just see what a specialty is like at a superficial level (which can help in some ways) My point is sort of that pre-clerk clinical stuff is really not that important. Doing some shadowing is truely sort of a drop in the bucket once you get to clerkship. People had fun with it I guess, but dear god, dont choose your med school based on this lol Yeah I'd agree with this except for two caveats: 1) seeing stuff in real life is extremely motivating for some people and hugely improves the quality and enjoyability of learning. If enjoyability in medical school means something when choosing a school, I'd say this is a pretty important factor. and 2) early clinical exposures for some people are critical for ruling out/in specialties, especially in a 3 year program, and especially if you're gunning for something competitive which requires that you set up clerkship electives early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 Yeah I'd agree with this except for two caveats: 1) seeing stuff in real life is extremely motivating for some people and hugely improves the quality and enjoyability of learning. If enjoyability in medical school means something when choosing a school, I'd say this is a pretty important factor. and 2) early clinical exposures for some people are critical for ruling out/in specialties, especially in a 3 year program, and especially if you're gunning for something competitive which requires that you set up clerkship electives early. That is fair. I would also agree with you on getting shafted on anatomy. Again, in truth, it doesnt really clinically make that much of a difference (unless you go into rads or surg); but I really learned almost no anatomy when I was a pre-clerk It really is totally up to you to learn it yourself. This works for some material, but not for anatomy. Good luck trying to force yourself to learn a bunch of latin words when you know you wont really be tested on it. I attended the "anatomy days", but never really sat down and memorized anatomy (never had to). Some did, those that are really self-motivated, but I would say a great majority of the class did not, especially after the first few months when you become less keen. As a result, I am matched for carms, and still barely know any anatomy. Who knows if it will ever matter lol...but yes I would agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
med1988 Posted April 8, 2011 Report Share Posted April 8, 2011 As a result, I am matched for carms, and still barely know any anatomy. Who knows if it will ever matter lol...but yes I would agree Does anyone else find this a little concerning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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