How does McMaster grade exactly?

[atomickitten86]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm trying to get a better picture of the McMaster curriculum, they don't seem to go into as much detail about their academic curriculum and program as say U of T.

 

I don't want to jump ahead of myself (May 15th is still a month away), but....

 

1) how exactly are students assessed? I know that there is a tutor (or is it two?)... is it the tutor alone that decides pass or fail (or what is it satisfactory, provisional satisfactory and unsatisfactory)? I'm assuming most people pass, but this seems like it would be subjective and opens a window to personal attacks (we all know that it happens, more frequently than we think probably). I personally like the seemingly relaxed nature of the program, but does this also leave students vulnerable? Sometimes a multiple choice test isn't so bad, at least you can't say somebody hated on you.

 

2) What happens in the unlikely even that you do fail? There isn't necessarily a test that you can do during remediation...

 

Thanks in advance!

[japlanet]

For each MF in pre-clerkship there are 2-3 "CAEs" which stands for something I don't remember anymore - conception application exercises? I think? - Anyway these are 'tests' (shh! don't call them that, Mac doesn't have tests!!) so there is some objective(ish) input into your performance.

 

Basically the only way to get an 'unsatisfactory' in an MF is to either not show up to >3 tutorials in an MF, show up and say not a single word the entire time, or be so utterly and unashamedly unprepared as to completely kibash the whole group (uhh, guys, sorry, can you explain to me again what a heart is??)

 

If you get an unsatisfactory or provisional satisfactory I think you have a meeting with your tutor and the MF director, and maybe a dean? and make some sort of remedial plan to get you up to a level where you can be said to have passed - independent project, presentation, in extremely rare cases repeat the MF?

 

Honestly if you get accepted then you are capable of passing each MF by being alive, showing up, and speaking occasionally.

[JoshWilde]

At the end of each MF, the tutor completes an evaluation of which the CAE (test) is just one category. Participation, preparedness, contribution to group process and professionalism are also on there. As the previous poster stated, almost everyone passes, and the only thing on your transcript is the subjective statement of the tutor. In clerkship, there are exams and similar evaluations from preceptors. Almost everyone gets satisfactory. You'd really have to be completely unprepared and unmotivated or stab a patient/classmate in order to fail.

 

There is an academic review committee that's intended to monitor and help students. In the past they've set up students with one-on-one tutoring to help review material they struggled with.

[atomickitten86]

Thank you both for your replies! They are incredibly helpful, I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

 

I didn't realize that tutors write comments on the transcript... I imagine that these mini "references" could make or break someone applying for residency?

 

Would a tutor ever be compelled to write something negative, i.e. satisfactory, but barely.... or satisfactory, but poor attendance...? The reason why I ask is because what if a student disagrees with the comment... are they allowed to possibly challenge?

 

In the past I have had the unfortunate experience of having a Prof and a TA treat me unfairly, which I believe was due to discrimination. Although I don't want that experience to traumatize me, I am cautious when it comes to subjective assessments.

[Retractable]

Whether you go to McMaster or not, you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that subjective assessment is going to constitute the greatest portion of the decision for residency applications. The tutors will write a one paragraph summary of your performance. To my knowledge they are typically positive if you've passed the MF. During clerkship at any school however you're going to get subjective clinical assessments for each rotation that have a much greater bearing than the MF reviews. Grades matter very little in medicine, just a bit less at McMaster I suppose

[amska]

Grades mean nothing when applying to residency. When it all boils down, only letters of intent and letters of reference matter in CaRMS. It's an incredibly non-transparent subjective process.

 

So even though you will have short paragraphs from your MF tutors (which no residency program will read) and from your clerkship tutors (may or may not be read) on your transcript, they are negligible unless they say something incredibly negative about you. Don't stress!

 

And yes, you can challenge those tutor evaluations if you want, but in my experience, they always paint you in a positive light or at the very worst, satisfactory (which is fine). Because what physician has the time to write a very personal in-depth multi-paragraph evaluation?

[Lactic Folly]

So even though you will have short paragraphs from your MF tutors (which no residency program will read) and from your clerkship tutors (may or may not be read) on your transcript, they are negligible unless they say something incredibly negative about you. Don't stress!

 

It's up to the individual residency program as to how much weight they place on these evaluations, but I can tell you that if the information is there, there is definitely the potential for it to be read and noted. That being said, clerkship evaluations usually carry more weight than preclerkship evaluations.