Non trad looking for advice for US schools

[hex000000]

Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice about how best to proceed. Sorry about the long read!

 

So, some background:

I did my undergrad at U of T and finished with a 3.31 (strong upward curve, 3.87 and 3.88 last 2 years, though they weren't fulltime so I can't take advantage of some CAN medical school admission policies, except queens). I'm now doing a research masters at U of T in Lab Medicine and Pathobiology. I don't really have ECs, but I'm trying to do as much as possible now (should be fine given how long a timeline I'm looking at).

 

Because of my humble beginnings, I'd have to redo basically all of my prereqs (most of my prereqs I didn't even get credits for because I went over the 6 allowed 100 level courses, having switched from business to life sci in second year uni).

 

I was contemplating a Caribbean (SGU) MD earlier but I've since laid back on that idea given the problems getting into something other than FM or IM and the projected residency spot situation in 2014 or 2015.

 

My current thinking is to take the MCAT in about 8 months and try my luck at Canadian unis (not holding my breath for these, but my parents want me to try), as well as get some experience writing the MCAT (lest I need to rewrite it) and then, after completing my masters(Aug 2014):

 

1)take the prereq courses at ryerson continuing education, though there seem to be some issues with taking the lab sections for the second part courses (There seems to be only 1 half year lab course in each chemistry subject for continuing education folks, not 2)

OR

2)Do a post bacc in the states to do these prereqs, like the one at Cleveland State (my gf's parents live nearby so I could hang with them is why I mention it)

 

Do you guys think it matters which I do? I heard Med Schools in the US like to see stateside education which is why I thought of the second option, but after looking at international admission stats my hopes of MD schools is kind of faded. I'm looking at DO schools too, I can quite easily get a DO LOR which should put me ahead of other Canadians who struggle with that, but as a Canadian I'm not a shoe-in by any means.

 

If I don't get in, with a student visa from the CSU post bacc I've heard there's some pathway to a greencard if you find an employer willing to sponsor you shortly after you finish your studies...don't know much about this though. That way I could...eventually get a greencard and apply as a permanent resident to US schools, though it would take forever.

 

I've also been thinking not too seriously of dropping out of my research masters to pursue the prereqs, since I haven't found much evidence on these forums that it'll help me with med schools. For current students that had a masters (if any exist), did you find it helped you all (did you get asked about it?). My labmate went to the Caribbean's (SGU) and said that's all they wanted to hear about but that's kind of different.

 

Thanks for your time,

A

[Dayne67]

I would try to bump that GPA to a 3.5 at least and get a 33+MCAT to make yourself competitive for US MD schools. It may take more than a year to do all of this though, but it is totally feasible IMO. And of course, a lower MCAT would still leave you competitive for US DO schools.

 

Now, you mentioned two possible pathways to doing the prereq coursework.

 

1) Doing your coursework at Ryerson CE, Waterloo, or any other canadian university is definitely cheaper. Just make sure you can get all the required labs as well. I see nothing wrong with this route.

 

2) Doing your coursework through a post-bacc in the US could get pretty expensive. If you do have the funds for that, it could help a little bit I guess. If you are intent on doing this, try to go to a post bacc program with a linkage to a medical school where you are eligible for acceptance (i.e. accepts canadians). Successfully completing these post baccs can get you a provisional acceptance to a US med school in a bunch of cases.

 

These are some post-bacc links that you may want to check out:

 

http://smhs.gwumc.edu/mdprograms/jointprograms/postbaccalaureatelinkageprograms/index.html

 

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

[hex000000]

Thanks for your reply Dayne, I forgot to mention my AMCAS gpa is 3.27, BCMP is 3.42, AO is 2.625 (I only did AOs in my bad years). Do I need to worry about improving my AO? I was thinking of taking psych as well in case I don't get in by 2015 and it's added to MCAT as well as prereqs.

 

One year of prereqs at full course load will bring me to 3.43, BCMP 3.55, AO 2.9 (assuming 4.0s, which I can definitely do)

 

Do you know if I need to worry about US schools not considering continuing education courses for my prereqs such as those offered at Ryerson CE? Will enough be OK with it that I shouldn't give it much thought?

[Dayne67]

I think the AO is irrelevant. They are only interested in your total GPA and to some extent your BCMP. I would still try to boost the GPA to 3.5. I think for Canadians applicants, especially, it is the magic number for MD schools. Anything below that can hurt your chances to a degree IMO. You could start trying to boost your GPA right away by taking relatively easy courses on the side while finishing up your masters. And then you could do your one year of post-bacc.

 

The US med schools will not care if you did your reqs at Ryerson, Waterloo, or wherever.

[BuckyBallz]

I think the AO is irrelevant. They are only interested in your total GPA and to some extent your BCMP. I would still try to boost the GPA to 3.5. I think for Canadians applicants, especially, it is the magic number for MD schools. Anything below that can hurt your chances to a degree IMO. You could start trying to boost your GPA right away by taking relatively easy courses on the side while finishing up your masters. And then you could do your one year of post-bacc.

 

The US med schools will not care if you did your reqs at Ryerson, Waterloo, or wherever.

 

I don't have first-hand knowledge of DO admissions, but from what I read on the SDN (student doctor network), a cGPA of 3.1 and MCAT of 30+ can get you an interview....and from what it seems, admission as well. This is based on the information relayed by several Canadian students applying to DO. See for yourself.

 

Closer to home, my friend had a cGPA in the 3.4-3.5 range and scored a 28-MCAT and interviewed at NovaSoutheastern University (NSU) in...florida(?) 2 years ago. Got waitlisted but the point is...he got WAITLISTED...and he's super socially awkward! So your numbers are not outside the realm of acceptance. Keep the faith, brother

[hex000000]

Thanks for the info guys, and for the support Bucky.

Lately I've been thinking of dropping out of my research Master's since after shadowing some doctors and doing some research I've kind of decided research is not where I want to be.

 

With this in mind, it seems like the more I read about master's degrees the more useless they are for getting into medical school (though I have not contacted any schools directly) and perhaps a better way to spend the next 1.5 years would be to get my cGPA up.

 

Alas I don't know how bad it would look to med schools for me to drop out and say it wasn't my thing when asked about it.

[BuckyBallz]

Thanks for the info guys, and for the support Bucky.

Lately I've been thinking of dropping out of my research Master's since after shadowing some doctors and doing some research I've kind of decided research is not where I want to be.

 

With this in mind, it seems like the more I read about master's degrees the more useless they are for getting into medical school (though I have not contacted any schools directly) and perhaps a better way to spend the next 1.5 years would be to get my cGPA up.

 

Alas I don't know how bad it would look to med schools for me to drop out and say it wasn't my thing when asked about it.

 

It sounds like you're trying to anticipate the answer to an interview question...that time will come. But for now, GPA, MCAT, and extracurricular's are what you have to worry about since they matter the most in the admission process. I would do things that improve those factors first, above all else.

 

The most ideal thing would be to get your master's and improve your candidature simultaneously, but unless you wanna be a student for the next 3+ years, I'm not sure that is possible. A master's degree looks good, and will give you topics to talk about in your letter and interview, but it's not a requirement to be admitted. So, I would only do a master's if I were a solid candidate already AND enjoyed doing the research. HOWEVER, if you're close to finishing... bare down and finish what you started. The fact that you finished despite yourself could definitely be something to include in your PS.

[hex000000]

Hi everyone,

A few months have passed and so I wanted to update this thread:

I just got my MCAT back: PS 12, VR 11, BS 13 for a total of 36. I think that's good for US schools, but I'm an international applicant (mostly) so I need all the help I can get.

 

I've been volunteering 3.5 hrs weekly since Jan in an endocrinology clinic, which isn't that much I know. I'm branching out now and getting some leadership and teaching experience, by being an alternate week reading project leader and part of a science outreach program. My sights are mostly set on finishing my MSc this academic year though, since I applied to OMSAS + Manitoba this year and have more coursework to do for US even if I don't get in this cycle.

 

Do you guys think Caribbean (SGU) is still a viable way to go about things? (or maybe you never thought it was). I figure if I don't get in 2 or 3 times I'll go there rather than give up. SMP is another option..I'd do that before SGU I think.

[Slashsev]

i would strongly look at DO during your MD apps

 

and Before you go to SGU

[hex000000]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.

With respect to DO I'm worried about visa issues. I've heard DO residencies are small comparative to MD ones and are therefore less likely to want to deal with paperwork that comes with a visa needing student. This is all hearsay though and I'm not really sure where I'd get more info, I guess maybe AACOMAS. I just don't want to get so far, finish school, and then be screwed.

 

EDIT: I suppose Caribs face the same problem, going so far in (time and money wise) unsure if it'll pay off.

I'm also aware I can do an MD residency from DO but again visa plus DO isn't exactly a winning combination for an MD residency.

[Der Kaiser]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.

With respect to DO I'm worried about visa issues. I've heard DO residencies are small comparative to MD ones and are therefore less likely to want to deal with paperwork that comes with a visa needing student. This is all hearsay though and I'm not really sure where I'd get more info, I guess maybe AACOMAS. I just don't want to get so far, finish school, and then be screwed.

 

EDIT: I suppose Caribs face the same problem, going so far in (time and money wise) unsure if it'll pay off.

I'm also aware I can do an MD residency from DO but again visa plus DO isn't exactly a winning combination for an MD residency.

 

DO beats Carib every time. There are many discussions about this on SDN. Also, you get first round in Ontario, BC, Quebec. That said, DO for a Canadian is not without risks, but if you are not too picky about what type of doctor you would like to be a good option.

[hex000000]

And I've read those Der Kaiser, but like you said the Canadian aspect makes it tricky, and there aren't many threads on that, at least that I have found. But it is an option, you are right. It's quite possible even with the Canadian aspect it's still better than Carib, though, like you said, the DO closes some doors for me that I'd rather not close. But it's never ideal and we do what we must.

 

Thanks for your post!

[Slashsev]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.

With respect to DO I'm worried about visa issues. I've heard DO residencies are small comparative to MD ones and are therefore less likely to want to deal with paperwork that comes with a visa needing student. This is all hearsay though and I'm not really sure where I'd get more info, I guess maybe AACOMAS. I just don't want to get so far, finish school, and then be screwed.

 

EDIT: I suppose Caribs face the same problem, going so far in (time and money wise) unsure if it'll pay off.

I'm also aware I can do an MD residency from DO but again visa plus DO isn't exactly a winning combination for an MD residency.

 

I feel like youve done 0 research

 

but good luck

[hex000000]

Ok I'll try to look into it more/deeper.

[Renegade85]

Ok I'll try to look into it more/deeper.

 

Definitely look into it more. I was in your shoes at one time when I first started researching DO schools. I'm currently attending MSU.

 

You can apply first round to the Canadian match or do your residency in the US. If you are ok with primary care getting a residency with a J1 visa will not be a problem.

[hex000000]

Interesting, do you know anything about non primary care residencies? How doable it is?

[advair250]

You can get a non-primary care, but you'll have to be in the top of your class. Don't hold your breath expecting even with hard work to be anything but average in your medical school classes. Just be honest with yourself, and what you want - then decide.

[Mashmetoo]

Interesting, do you know anything about non primary care residencies? How doable it is?

 

Hey, are you around Toronto now? We actually have a seminar coming up this FRIDAY at UofT that will answer most if not all of your questions regarding DO schools. We got 3 Canadian DO students and the director of Admissions of MSU coming too. Sooo, its kinda of a big deal

[hex000000]

Yep, I work outta Mt Sinai, send me the details please!

[Mashmetoo]

 

 

Hey everyone, we will be having another presentation this fall. It will be held at the University of Toronto, on Friday October 18. Everyone is welcome to attend!

 

Also, if you're a U of T student please sign up for the event through the career centre http://www.careers.utoronto.ca/ so we can track expected numbers. Non UT students are welcome as well though!

 

No need to sign up or anything, just show up at that place at that time. No one's going to stop you from going in.