Advice for Possibilities in US Schools

[DocMartinL]

So here's my case:

Ph.D in Chemistry (although it was in Biochemistry - really medical biochem if anything)

MCAT scores of 11 V, 12 PS, 12 BS (no writing sample - it was this year).

I teach at a local college in Biotechnology, so I'm about as up to date as I could be...

GPA somewhere around the 3.6 mark.

 

I'm thinking I may have good chances in somewhere like John Hopkins... anyone have any input?

 

Thanks!

[DoubleA]

Because of your teaching experience I think you may fit well at schools that use a PBL model. Plus those schools tend to be research based. Case is the main one coming to mind.

[DocMartinL]

Thanks! So you think that I'll be barking up the wrong tree with JHopkins?

[DoubleA]

Not necessarily. I'm not sure how much this applies to Hopkins but generally the 'best' schools are recognized for academic medicine. While your PhD in itself won't add much, the research work and teaching roles might appeal to them because of a propensity for that type of career.

 

I suggested Case simply because I think PBL would fit both your research and teaching background. I don't know how much opportunity you'll have to put your teaching experience to use at Hopkins which is essentially based on lectures.

[TheBoss]

I'm not saying you're a weak applicant, but close to no one has "good chances" at Johns Hopkins. You have a PhD, that's good, but is your CV strong at least? Hopkins already gets plenty of applicants with 3.9+ GPA, 36+ MCAT and multiple publications among other things.

[DoubleA]

I'm not saying you're a weak applicant, but close to no one has "good chances" at Johns Hopkins. You have a PhD, that's good, but is your CV strong at least? Hopkins already gets plenty of applicants with 3.9+ GPA, 36+ MCAT and multiple publications among other things.

 

At schools like Hopkins I don't think marks are going to get you in because they could fill their class with people who have 38+ AND a 4.0. Hopkins' 10th percentile MCAT is a 32. Harvard, Yale and Stanford are 33. They want to have a well rounded class, and they know choosing a person with a 39 isn't necessarily better than someone with a 33.

[TheBoss]

At schools like Hopkins I don't think marks are going to get you in because they could fill their class with people who have 38+ AND a 4.0. Hopkins' 10th percentile MCAT is a 32. Harvard, Yale and Stanford are 33. They want to have a well rounded class, and they know choosing a person with a 39 isn't necessarily better than someone with a 33.

 

I never said that either. Like I said, you generally need strong stats and a strong CV (generally strong research) to be competitive at top US schools, and OP did not claim to have either, yet seems to expect to have "good chances" at Hopkins. A PhD is good, but OP didn't say whether or not he/she has strong productivity (publications), which is essential.

 

I find it funny how when I ask about OP's CV, you somehow interpret it as me saying grades and MCAT are all that matter

[DoubleA]

I never said that either. Like I said, you generally need strong stats and a strong CV (generally strong research) to be competitive at top US schools, and OP did not claim to have either, yet seems to expect to have "good chances" at Hopkins. A PhD is good, but OP didn't say whether or not he/she has strong productivity (publications), which is essential.

 

I find it funny how when I ask about OP's CV, you somehow interpret it as me saying grades and MCAT are all that matter

 

I didn't disagree with you, because I think you had a point saying that your CV matters. I just think that grades are a relatively overrated aspect of the application process in the US because of the holistic evaluation that US schools go for - at my interviews no one has asked about my marks. In this sense I would say your CV could be about something other than research credentials and still be a competitive applicant for top schools like Hopkins. Do they have a general pattern in their applicants? Yes, but I don't think it disadvantages people with alternative backgrounds, like a professional teaching background in compensation for lower stats.

 

EDIT: I should add that you also bring up a good point when you say noone truly has good chances at top schools. When I say competitive I mean relatively.

[Der Kaiser]

To OP:

 

how productive were you in your grad degree?

 

Also, a PhD in chemistry looks good whether your research was medicine related or not. There is a lot of potential there for a future medical researcher. In fact, I would say almost any PhD could be useful for a physician because medicine is a field with many avenues of pursuit. Basically, as long as you have good pubs and some decent clinical exposure I think you should apply to the Ivies.

[DocMartinL]

Let me maybe clarify a little:

My research isn't the best - but it clearly isn't the worst either. I have 7 publications, of which five are first author. All in decent-to-good journals, and spanning a range of developmental biology through to clinal biochemistry (I study one-carbon metabolism, the enzymology of it, it's biochemistry, and this lead us into embryo work with folate and epigenetics etc).

My research was 'good' enough to make me feel like I have made a decent impact, but not good enough to make me feel like I'm a professional competitive scientist. I COULD be... but I really don't think that's the future for me.

 

I am grateful for the input.

[Der Kaiser]

Let me maybe clarify a little:

My research isn't the best - but it clearly isn't the worst either. I have 7 publications, of which five are first author. All in decent-to-good journals, and spanning a range of developmental biology through to clinal biochemistry (I study one-carbon metabolism, the enzymology of it, it's biochemistry, and this lead us into embryo work with folate and epigenetics etc).

My research was 'good' enough to make me feel like I have made a decent impact, but not good enough to make me feel like I'm a professional competitive scientist. I COULD be... but I really don't think that's the future for me.

 

I am grateful for the input.

 

Keeping in mind that everything I know is from obsessively reading SDN and Premed101, but my impression is that with decent research (like you have) and a completed PhD with your marks and MCAT score make you a good candidate for some of the Ivies. Yes lots of students with your grades and MCAT apply to those schools, but they are probably not as common as other posters would make you believe and they do not have PhDs in biochemistry under their belt. That is a significant accomplishment IMO, and from what Adcoms have said on SDN medical schools are looking for physician scientists in the states (you have the scientist part down pat).

 

Re: gpa. Slightly below avg. for Ivies (Harvard is like 3.79 for instance). But my impression is that once you make a certain cutoff (like about 3.5) these schools do not worry about GPA as much and focus more on the MCAT. Plus you have years and years of scientific learning under your belt from a PhD. So again I would say go for it.

[DocMartinL]

Thanks!

 

I think I will... assuming other factors align (like family, finances etc).

 

I should have noted - I'm not a North American (yet). I am originally from New Zealand, came to Canada for a Post-Doc, decided that wasn't for me, now am set on medicine. I almost have Canadian citizenship, but I'm sure there's at least a little bit of the 'exotic' factor in my favor too.

[TheBoss]

I basically agree with Der Kaiser, I'd say you have a worthwhile shot even for ivies. Your research is strong in my opinion, and your MCAT is certainly competitive. A correction I'll make though, is that Harvard's average GPA is a bit over 3.9, certainly not under 3.8.

 

Thanks!

 

I think I will... assuming other factors align (like family, finances etc).

 

I should have noted - I'm not a North American (yet). I am originally from New Zealand, came to Canada for a Post-Doc, decided that wasn't for me, now am set on medicine. I almost have Canadian citizenship, but I'm sure there's at least a little bit of the 'exotic' factor in my favor too.

 

This is troubling actually. Did you do any schooling in Canada? Many of the US schools who accept internationals only accept those who have done at least one year of university in the US or Canada.

 

As well, many US schools, especially the highly ranked ones, like applicants with strong research backgrounds because, not surprisingly, they want them to do research in medical school and beyond. What is your position on this?

[Der Kaiser]

 

This is troubling actually. Did you do any schooling in Canada? Many of the US schools who accept internationals only accept those who have done at least one year of university in the US or Canada.

 

As well, many US schools, especially the highly ranked ones, like applicants with strong research backgrounds because, not surprisingly, they want them to do research in medical school and beyond. What is your position on this?

 

TheBoss makes some valid points.You may get away with having your transcripts evaluated by WES for some schools, but to maximize chances you may need to do a year at a Cdn university. On the plus side the Ivies are far more accepting of internationals than public schools, so it is a good thing your MCAT is so high.

 

Definitely take a position on whether you want to do research or not. If not, I suggest you get a lot of clinical experience and community service to compensate (although you could say you want to do some research and practice at the same time).

[DocMartinL]

I basically agree with Der Kaiser, I'd say you have a worthwhile shot even for ivies. Your research is strong in my opinion, and your MCAT is certainly competitive. A correction I'll make though, is that Harvard's average GPA is a bit over 3.9, certainly not under 3.8.

 

 

 

This is troubling actually. Did you do any schooling in Canada? Many of the US schools who accept internationals only accept those who have done at least one year of university in the US or Canada.

 

As well, many US schools, especially the highly ranked ones, like applicants with strong research backgrounds because, not surprisingly, they want them to do research in medical school and beyond. What is your position on this?

 

TheBoss makes some valid points.You may get away with having your transcripts evaluated by WES for some schools, but to maximize chances you may need to do a year at a Cdn university. On the plus side the Ivies are far more accepting of internationals than public schools, so it is a good thing your MCAT is so high.

 

Definitely take a position on whether you want to do research or not. If not, I suggest you get a lot of clinical experience and community service to compensate (although you could say you want to do some research and practice at the same time).

 

I actually figured that since it was a Ph.D in a not-unknown place (this is New Zealand, not Kreblakastan) and have been teaching at a college here (including as a tutor for CBL/PBL at the University of Ottawa's Med School) that my non-Canadian background wouldn't be too big a deal...

[Der Kaiser]

I actually figured that since it was a Ph.D in a not-unknown place (this is New Zealand, not Kreblakastan) and have been teaching at a college here (including as a tutor for CBL/PBL at the University of Ottawa's Med School) that my non-Canadian background wouldn't be too big a deal...

 

I know it seems ridiculous that New Zealand grades would not be recognized, but American schools are pretty crazy about these things. This is from Columbia U's website:

 

"Because the Admissions Committee has no satisfactory means of evaluating the premedical education at universities outside of the United States and Canada, it is rare that we admit individuals from foreign universities. We therefore require at least one year of premedical training at an institution in the US, in addition to the MCAT."

 

However, you could always write theses schools and see if they would make an exception (or accept WES evaluation or something).

[TheBoss]

I actually figured that since it was a Ph.D in a not-unknown place (this is New Zealand, not Kreblakastan) and have been teaching at a college here (including as a tutor for CBL/PBL at the University of Ottawa's Med School) that my non-Canadian background wouldn't be too big a deal...

 

Two issues:

 

A) As far as recognition goes, even among Canadian schools they probably would only know of say, UofT and McGill. Besides like, Oxford and Cambridge, they probably won't know much if anything about any schools outside North America.

 

Only US and Canadian grades get verified by AMCAS, any others (including the likes of Oxford) have to be evaluated by WES, which means you're working on a different scale, which they sure as heck don't want to deal with.

[advair250]

Doubt anyone would question the OP's credentials, with a 35 MCAT, PhD, and relevant teaching experience at a Canadian Medical School. I'm sure the top 20 schools get international applicants, and have methods of using WES to look over applicants.

 

As with anything on Pm101, go to the source(the schools) and ask. Do things well in advance, get your transcripts assessed well in advance, and go from there.