mudphud

Hi everyone, Long time lurker here, and I have been very appreciative of everyone's comments / suggestions over the years. While I haven't been reading the forum as regularly, I keep reading about people wondering about whether or not to go to grad school before med school and thought I would put in my 2 cents. Why? Mainly, because I read about people who 'want' to go to grad school, without any prior consideration of what it might entail, which is generally a combination for disaster. But first, a little background. Typical, *VERY AVERAGE* student (3.5GPA, 31S MCAT, good ECs etc). Spent many undergrad summers and terms doing research. Started PhD, then applied and got into MD/PhD program. And now on with the story. Pros for Grad School 1. Grad school is great. You will learn much more about yourself than you might have thought. You'll meet great people (some not so great people), but in the end, you'll come out with the feeling that you have accomplished something! Grad school also teaches some serious problem solving skills (that are ACTUALLY applicable to REAL LIFE!). You will really look at problems in the world differently. You'll appreciate all aspects of the problem, you will become more objective, and try to remove bias in your decision making. After all, all great scientists do this. Plus, think of how this will help you in your future medical careers? I've been told by a number of MSc/MDs and MD/PhDs that lessons in grad school continually help them in their day to day medical practices. 2. You get paid to go to school! And in many cases, there are funds / scholarships for MD/PhD students. CIHR, different provincial granting agencies. You might actually go through grad school and med school without accumulating debt! 3. You genuinely have a passion for science. Science is so cool. We know so little about our world, yet go around everyday as if nothing matters. Discoveries are made by grad students working in labs around the world. Enough said. Cons for Grad School 1. You have a time commitment. Seriously. Grad school in Canada (unless you are in a course based masters), does not mean that you will graduate *guaranteed* in 2 years (for a MSc). I have no idea where this 'idea' gets perpetrated, but in *Basic Sciences*, you are looking at between 2 to 3 years. Writing up / defending alone will take you 3-4 months if you are fast and your supervisor doesn't edit like crazy. For a PhD, expect at least 5 years when all is said and done. Yah yah, there ARE people who finish in 2 years for a MSc and 4 years for a PhD, but these cases are NOT COMMON (and usually not in basic sciences). For perspective, the last person I knew who finished a PhD in 4 years had a first author Nature paper. 1b. In regards to time. Assuming you finish a 4 year undergrad, then take 5 years for a PhD, then 4 years med school, than 3-5 years residency (what about fellowships?), you'll be 34-36 years old by the time you're working on your own (31-33 if you do a MSc). That is a LONG FLIPPIN' TIME. I mean, there are ways to cut corners (like 3 year med school at UC and Mc), but on average, that is what to expect. CONSIDER THIS CAREFULLY. I have friends of mine who when I was in undergrad were getting married, and now they're popping out babies. So if these things are important to you, think about the fact that you won't exactly be Doogie Howser when you're all done. 2. You cannot deal with failure. My former supervisor told me that scientists live for the 1%. In other words, we fail 99% of the time, but that 1% success is the one that drives us. Especially in basic sciences, you will fail. Experiments may not work for months. Your project might fail or get scooped (happens a lot more often than you hear about). You may feel pretty crappy about life (which can be amplified by a bad supervisor, see below). So if you can't deal with the fact that things might just not work, for reasons out of your control, SERIOUSLY consider if grad school is the best option for you. 3. You think grad school is a good way to 'kill time' before you get accepted into med school. I cannot believe how many times I have heard that from a grad student's mouth. In basic sciences, you will have hard weeks and you will have easy weeks. Some easy weeks mean you spend 30-40hours in the lab, some hard weeks mean you spend 60+ hours in the lab. I think a good estimate is about 50hrs when you consider reading / course work outside of actual lab time. Expect to spend at least 6 days a week in the lab (even if it is just for a few hours on the weekend to prep for the week). No, this doesn't mean you spend EVERY weekend in the lab, or every night, but don't show up expecting to put in 40 hrs a week of lackluster effort and getting out in 3 years. Maybe during your first 6 months, sure, but after that, the time you spend in the lab (i.e. productivity) is a direct correlation with how fast you get out. Some advice 1. Don't think grad school is a 'backup' and 'time kill' until you get into med school because there are a helluva lot easier ways to kill time than grad school (5th year undergrad, volunteering, traveling). 2. Not all supervisors are nice. Most are, assuming you a willing and open minded student (after all, they are there to mentor you). So don't pick a supervisor all willy nilly and expect them to work. I have seen many people drop out or transfer from PhDs to MScs because they simply didn't get along with their supervisor. Wasn't because they were 'dumb' and couldn't handle it, but how you and your supervisor interact will determine whether or not you cry yourself to sleep at night. TALK TO THE GRAD STUDENTS IN THE LAB YOU WANT TO JOIN. They are usually really open and honest about whether the person is a whack or a great mentor. And for the love of God, DO NOT SHOW UP ON THE FIRST DAY OF GRAD SCHOOL WITHOUT PERSONALLY INTERVIEWING YOUR SUPERVISOR!!!!! I still see this happening in my department and while I have no solid facts, I can qualitatively tell you that these people are more likely to quit / drop out of grad school. 3. Be open with your supervisor. Tell them that you want to go to med school BEFORE you join the lab. After all, you WILL need a reference from them. And after you've started? Tell them that you might have to write the MCAT. Or that there are some volunteer opportunities that come up. You'd be surprised at how many supervisors are understanding of that, and will give you a week or 2 before the MCAT or let you sneak out here and there to volunteer at a science fair or something. Hiding things means you might get caught, and that is never a good thing. They may be scientists first, but they are also mentors. They know that you'll only be with them temporarily, and in many cases, grad school is a stepping stone to something else. If they are understanding of your goals, than you have could have a very powerful 'batter' on your team. SO... in conclusion... CONSIDER YOUR OPTIONS CAREFULLY. I'm really not trying to discourage anyone, but rather I'm trying to be a realist about the what actually happens. I know that the people who read this forum are smart people with the drive and determination needed to get into med school. But smart people can make good decisions just as easily as they can make bad decisions. Grad school can be a great decision (best one you'll ever make in my opinion), but for some people (who don't do their background work), grad school can be the worst decision they'll ever make. Grad school is a great ride and fantastic journey. For me, I have never regretted going to grad school as it has definitely changed my attitudes towards academic sciences and medicine. It gave me the chance to 'grow up' and see the world from a different perspective, one that I might not necessarily get from only going to med school. After all, we can't all be Doogie Howsers. Thanks for reading.