UT or UC

[Guest medinvan]

Hi,

 

I was just accepted as an OOP student off the waitlist for UC. I was accepted on May 15th into UT. Before being accepted to UC, I was prepared to go to UT (from vancouver) but was feeling a bit overwhelmed by the impression i have of UT that it is ultracompetitive (and has frequent exams) and the fact that it is quite expensive (especially living cost and plane tickets to go back to vancouver every break) and it is quite far from Vancouver (much farther than calgary).

 

Now that UC has accepted me, I don't know if I should choose UC. My concerns about UC is that it is three years (very few and short breaks to visit family), and few elective spots (since I think I definitely want to specialize in radiology, radiation therapy, or nuclear medicine...and be in Vancouver for it....i would like to do electives in those fields in vancouver).

 

And finally, since I really want to be in this limited range of specialties, and I'm positive I want to do my residency in Vancouver, I was wondering if choosing UT or UC would make a difference in my ability to match to my residency of choice. I would assume that factors that will affect my ability to match to radiology, radiation therapy, or nuclear medicine in Vancouver include:

-the focus the med school places on these specialties

-the amount of clinical time i get in these specialties

-the amount of elective time i spend in vancouver (to know the vancouver-based doctors)

-my relative performance at that school (ie if UT is supercompetitive, then there will be much much more pressure on me to give up free/relax time to study and keep myself from being pushed to the bottom of the class in terms of academic performance)

-the reputation of the medical school??? (not sure if there is such a thing in residency matching...but in terms of the general public, UT seems more prestigious)

 

Any help/advice would be excellent and great,

 

Thanks!

[Guest scrubbed]

Hey there,

 

Congratulations on your acceptance to both schools, though it does leave a tough decision for you.

 

As someone who just finished first year at Toronto, who interviewed at Calgary, and is from BC, I'll offer my perspective.

 

Though noone can make an absolute comparison, it seems reasonable that U of T is proably a bit more competitive than U of C, though I wouldn't say that U of T is ultracompetitive. Among other reasons, the average age of the U of C class is approximately a couple years older (23.5 to 25.5, perhaps), and we tend to get a bit less competitive as we age.

 

Some of my classmates have commented that they do find that some people are competitive, and they may have a point; however, I think that this is partly function of how you perceive other people and who you choose to hang around with. At every school, there are people who are going to be more competitive, and people who are going to be less competitve. The frequent exams are a matter of perspective too. Some people may not like the two week on and two week off approach at U of T, but it was nice at the end of the term to only have three exams, which were not grossly difficult.

 

Calgary is a better choice when it comes to expenses: lower cost of living and lower tuition, especially with one less year, which is almost equivalent to one full year of practice earnings, though you are going to do well regardless of where you go.

 

Though Calgary may have fewer elective spots and less time to do research or elective in the summer months, you probably would have enough time to do electives in the areas that you are interesetd in. Perhaps, though, with more time do research or electives, and with more research oportunities, though I imagine that these would be available in Calgary as well, you may be able to build a stronger application.

 

I don't think that there is too much diference in terms of the amount of emphasis put on radiology, with the possible exception that with more class time, with one extra year, there may be a bit more exposure in a four year program, though I'm sure that this difference isn't too large.

 

U of T's clerkship scedule doesn't feature a specific radiology block, as far as I can tell, but I'm sure that there is plently of exposure to radiology during your other rotations.

 

I wouldn't get too focussed on your standing in the class regardless where you go to school. I would expect your clinical experience, letters of reference, and perceived interest in the field to be much more useful to in evaluating an applicant than preclerkship marks.

 

That's my two cents. If you any more questions, post another message or send my a message in my ezInbox.

 

Best of luck

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hey there,

 

Currently, the evaluation systems at UofT and UofC differ: UofT offers an H/P/F system whereas UofC offers a P/F system. Radiology programs, if you look at the CaRMS pages, are keen on marks so if an H/P/F system could offer you an advantage or disadvantage then that may be an issue that should factor into your decision.

 

As for electives, I think you'll have equal opportunity at UofT or UofC re: Radiology time.

 

Interesting, having just completed a set of cross-country electives, (including one at UBC and one at UofT) I was surprised at the amount of East vs. West judgements that were prevalent within each program (as well as others). I don't think it's a big factor in the residency selection process, but it seems to be some sort of factor in some folks' minds.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest medinvan]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Just wondering, is getting Honours similar to achieving something like 80% or more in undergrad, or is it much more difficult to achieve?

 

Also, just wondering, when a program is H/P/F or P/F, does that mean that neither the "Medical School Transcript" nor the "Medical Student Performance Record" have evaluations in more detail (ie, the percent grade, other comments)? (CARMS says those are the required supporting documents required; i don't know what the difference between the two are)

 

Also, for Kirsteen, what do you mean by "the amount of East vs. West judgements that were prevalent within each program"? Do you mean western programs like western med graduates better?

 

Thanks!

[Guest scrubbed]

Hi there,

 

To clarify the honours situation, 80% is any course is an honours, where at least 60% is required to achieve a pass. In some courses, such as Metabolism and Nutrition the passing mark is higher than 60% (70%, in this case), but the class average is also substantially higher. From an informal discussion with a student who is involved in the education committee, the lowest percentage of honours grades in a course was about 30-40% so it doesn't seem that in preclerkship at least, there's a highly select group of people that will impress program directors, for what marks are worth. In other courses, that proportion is higher. Also, as in most, surely all, Canadian medical schools, they want you do well and do not try to fail anyone out.

 

Your transcript will not have your percentage on it, as far as I know, which is fairly certain: a 98 is as good as an 81 and a 78 is as good as a 67. I'm not sure about the performance record, though I 'm sure that someone can clarify. My guess is that it might document leaves of absence from school or conduct issues.

 

At the end of the day, if you seem certain that you want to do something in the something radiology related, and will focus your energies in that area, then perhaps a three year program is better suited for you. Then, of course, there are the personal aspect of things. As was said in the Clagary forum, it did seem like being close to Vancouver was quite important to you, so it may be the better option. The nice thing about medical school in Canada is that you will get a good education regardless where you go. It's up to you to determine which program and which city will best allow you to do well, which includes meeting personal as well as professional needs.

 

All the best.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Regarding the above, what I meant was that I saw favouritism or discrimination towards or against students from the East or West coast during some of my electives. Granted, not every staff member voiced these opinions, but some did.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest mshammer]

Hi Medinvan...

 

I interviewed at UBC and did my undergrad at SFU, so I'm familiar with Vancouver and also have lots of friends in the UBC program. However, I was OOP (from NL) and didn't get into UBC, but was accepted at UofT and MUN (going to UofT).

 

Anyway, here's my two cents on the frequent exams...

 

My friends in 1st year med at UBC who helped me prepare for my UBC interviews all said the end of term exams were a bit tough. It really required a LOT of discipline, and many people ended up cramming. Personally, I prefer the UofT regular testing schedule to the UBC one, but obviously everyone is different.

 

As for UofT being competitive, the only thing I know is that all the students I met at my interview, and I had to wait a bit so I did a fair bit of chatting, were all REALLY nice. They were definitely people that I would want to have as classmates and friends. With a class of over 200, you'll have to find people with similar styles to you. I, for one, would be your classmate, and always worked with my friends at uni, not against them!

 

So ya, this may not really help your decision, but I wouldn't discount UofT based on rumours of competition. As someone who has lived on the east coast and west coast and now in Toronto, I think it's great to get away from what you're used to and learn more about our country. My husband was born and raised in Vancouver, but has enjoyed the past 2 years in Toronto (despite the homer Leafs fans

You're already planning to do residency in BC, so why not give another region a try?

 

Good luck with your decision!

[Guest medinvan]

hi thank you for your replies

 

I've heard lots that UT has frequent exams, but on the website schedule, they are really only like once a month.

1) Is that considered frequent in med school?

2) Are there still cumulative exams at the end of each course (even if there are frequent exams in between)?

3) Does 1st term really end in Jan rather than in Dec?

4) Are there exams at UT that cover "everything learned so far (whether it counts for makrs or is just for personal evaluation)...so its like a mock licensing exam?

 

sorry for so many questions. thanks

[Guest peachy]

1) Is that considered frequent in med school?

I don't think the exams at U of T, in preclerkship, are all that frequent.

 

2) Are there still cumulative exams at the end of each course (even if there are frequent exams in between)?

Exams are generally not cumulative.

 

3) Does 1st term really end in Jan rather than in Dec?

Medical school isn't really on a "term" schedule. In first year, Structure & Function ends at the end of January, and there are DOCH and ASCM exams at the same time, so I suppose it feels like "end of term". But in second year, Pathobiology ends at the beginning of December, instead.

 

4) Are there exams at UT that cover "everything learned so far (whether it counts for makrs or is just for personal evaluation)...so its like a mock licensing exam?

No.