Apply to medical school this year(2004) or next year(2005)?

[Guest caper81]

Hi,

I am currently researching on what medical schools to apply to. So far, my overall GPA is sadly only 3.52 and my two-best years is not that better off at about a 3.58

1st year: 3.40

2nd year: 3.75

3rd year: 3.40

4th year: N/A (fall 2004/winter 2005 - hoping for 3.9 or 4.0)

MCAT: I will write this August 2004.

 

So far, I have looked at McMaster since they don’t require the MCAT. Are there any other schools I could apply to with this kind of GPA? This is assuming I do well on the MCAT this August.

 

Or should I just wait until next year (2005) to apply since my GPA is so low that my chances of getting into any medical school are slim to none EVEN with a good MCAT score this August?

 

I am hoping my 4th year GPA is a 4.0, which will help boost my overall GPA to a 3.64 and my two-best years to (3.75 + 4.0 (hoping) = 3.88), which seems just a little more competitive for admission. Any suggestions and advice would be greatly appreciated because right now I am so confused whether to apply or not this year to medical school. Thanks for your help.

[Guest dr deelish]

Western & Queen's both have very rigid GPA cut-offs, so I don't think you'd have much luck with those two schools. Depending on where you live, Ottawa could be an option--but, if you are an anglophone non-Ottawa area, non-aboriginal student, you can count that school out as well.

 

Toronto tends to favour students with super high GPAs, although it is not unusual to find students that don't have perfect GPAs (the entering class for 0T7 had a range of GPAs from 3.2 to 4.0). If you've got amazing extracurriculars and can write a spectacular essay, you could try Toronto.

 

Given that McMaster has no MCAT requirement, and advertise a very low GPA cut-off, many many many students end up applying to it. Thus, only students that have steller extracurriculars/essays/marks/etc. get invited for interviews. Again, if you feel that you're a strong candidate in the extracurriculars & essay writing department, then you might want to give it a shot. NOMS is also one that you might think of applying to, but they apparently want to see experience/interest in northern Ontario/Aboriginal communities.

 

I recommend going through the application process this year anyway, just because it is good practice, and if you do end up getting an interview, super awesome!

 

Good luck.

[Guest coastal79]

I think it depends on how strong you think the rest of your application is. If you have good extracurriculars then you might be able to land an interview. If your resume is only average, given your gpa, it's unlikely that you would get any interviews. OMSAS is expensive to apply to, but if you have the cash, give McMaster a shot. Another possibility is U of Manitoba. MCAT counts for 50% of whether you get in, while GPA is only 10%. Also, the application fee is only $50 (I think) and you don't have to write an essay until after you are offered an interview (ie, you don't get an interview, you don't have to waste your time). They interview about 50 OOP people a year, and up to 30 of those will get offerred admission to fill the 10 or so spots. Good odds if you get to the interview stage.

[Guest UTStudent03]

Hi caper81,

 

I think you should apply this year. Your GPA is pretty decent, certainly not sad as you described it! You have a shot at Mac as I've read previous posts saying that applicants with a >3.5 overall gpa have a chance at getting an interview. Assuming you took a full course load every year, UT will drop a certain number of courses, which should improve your GPA for admission purposes to UT's med school. You would have to write the MCAT this August though.

 

Also, I believe Western bases their interview invites on your best year only and your MCAT scores. So, if you wrote the MCAT this August and applied this year and you met the cutoffs, you should get an interview, and if you were accepted, your current year's marks (this upcoming school year) would also have to be above the cutoff.

 

OOP schools may be an option also for applying this year, though I'm not too sure on the details.

 

Go for it! You'll never know if you don't apply. Good luck to you.

[Guest Ollie]

Hi,

 

OK for UofT, yes there were people admitted with as low as 3.2, but this would be the undergrad average for someone who has since completed a graduate degree. For applicants with an undergrad only, the minimum is around 3.6

 

Keep in mind that a lot of schools (Ottawa, UofT) use a weighting formula, that either drops your worst courses or weights later years stronger than earlier years, but this is dependant on you having taken a full course load each year.

 

Western will take your best 2 years, and this year the cutoff was 3.7, so if you make that in the upcoming year, you will be OK (they will grant an interview if you have one year at 3.7, and then acceptance is conditional on your year-in-progress being above 3.7)

 

Queens cutoff this year was just below 3.6 I think, and they will take either your overall or your last 2 years.

 

Of course you would also have to make MCAT cutoffs for these schools as well.

 

Overall, I would say that you are in pretty good shape. 3.5 is nothing to sneeze at, and I'm sure you will increase it in the upcoming year. If I were you I would go ahead and apply, because you never know. And the process is definitely a learning experience, so even if you don't get in on your first try (which lots of people don't) you will be that much farther ahead the following year!

[Guest cutieyellow]

I think you should apply, for all you really lose is a bit of time composing all those secondaries (essays and running after letters of refs) and money. Otherwise, you have nothing else to lose. I mean, if you get in this year, it will be amazing, and if you don't, well, hey, you were planning on applying next year anyways.

 

So if you have the funds, and the time, i say go for it.

 

CY

[Guest brandonitejr]

I echo the thought of applying to the University of Manitoba. Your GPA will only be 10% and can actually throw away a significant number of courses (not just straight years), except for a full year of English/French and a full year of Biochemistry. If you do well on the MCAT, you should be able to snag an interview.

 

As well, from my experience, they really value extracurricular/volunteer experience, so if you're strong in this area, it can only improve your chances.

[Guest avisee]

I also echo that you should apply to Western. As long as you meet the MCAT cutoff, and the GPA cutoff doesn't rise higher than 3.75 (which is doubtful) then you're guaranteed an interview as long as you meet the other basic criteria (ie, Canadian citizen, etc etc). If you're accepted, your offer would be conditional upon you meeting the cutoff with your marks this year, but if you think that's a realistic expectation, then by all means, apply!

 

McMaster is a bit of a crapshoot with so many people applying, but it's definitely worth applying to Western - and since you're doing the OMSAS you may as well also apply to Western. You may also want to look into Ottawa, depending on where your home address is. They use a different GPA weighting that places more emphasis on recent years - you *might* meet the Ottawa-resident cutoff of 3.60 (if you live there), but if you live in a region that is considered medically underserviced, the cutoff is only about 3.55, and I'll bet your WGPA meets that.

 

Also, look into schools in other provinces. If you're an Ontario resident, it might be difficult, but it's worth considering Manitoba, or possibly even Mcgill if you meet all of their course prereqs.

 

Definitely apply this year. At the very least, it will give you good practise and some essays to start off with if you need to reapply again the year after.

[Guest caper81]

Hi,

I would like to thank all of those that responded! I will take all of your guy’s great advices and suggestions into consideration when deciding whether to apply this year or not. But I have a follow up question. It would seem that with a 3.5 GPA, I would need to have an above average extra-curricular and an excellent essay to get like an interview. So what is considered an average or below average or above average extracurricular activities/essay?

 

As for me, I have volunteered at the hospital for a couple of years now, currently a co-chair of a student organization, some research experience (I did an NSERC USRA), involvement with a couple of other organizations, and a lot of work experience (part-time jobs during school, full-time summer jobs, etc). Is this good enough, do I need more?

 

Again, thanks for your input!

[Guest antissa]

Sorry to hijack, but I'm currently struggling with the same decision and would love some advice from those wiser and more experience than me.

My OMSAS GPA is not what I'm worried about... it's not amazing by UT med standards but I don't think it should hinder my application (3.90 first year, 3.91 second year). However, I have very weak extracurriculars compared to most people - I volunteered at Sick Kids for less than half a year, at another children's rehab center for two summers, two summers of research, took up fencing for half a year, and that's it. I've never been good enough at any particular sport to make a varsity team, and have never held any leadership positions (or joined any clubs, for that matter). I'm writing MCAT this August, but judging from my performance so far, my verbal reasoning score may be dangerous. On top of all that, because I just finished second year, I'm very very limited in the schools I can apply to - basically no schools outside of Ontario, not NOMS, and not UWO (because I didn't have a full course load this year, and they require at least 2 full years). Should I even bother applying?

[Guest Makunouchi]

hi caper81, antissa,

 

Echoing the advice given already... I'd recommend applying. I won't be able to tell you if your non-academics are "enough"... it's not as clear-cut as academic scores obviously (different criteria and scoring at different schools too). Plus it's more of the quality and what you have gained.

 

If you apply, you'll have a chance to get an interview, and be admitted this year. If not, you can get an idea of what they deemed 'missing' if they have any feedback sessions. And you could always try deferring an acceptance if you want to finish your degree.

 

If you don't apply, you won't know!

[Guest CTU24]

I feel you have both gotten some good adivce on this thread...

 

Concerning knowing whether your ECs are "good enough," this is a very difficult question to answer. I believe the purpose of ECs is to build life and people expereince...allowing you to better know yourself and develop as a person. As a result, I don't think there is a med school "check list" that the adcom checks off for each EC. Rather, they look at your list to see that you have gained the life experience necessary to enter (and succeed) in meds.

 

As for the essay, this is another tough one. From my experience, I got my family, a few close friends, and a couple of Docs to read it over. I asked them to answer ONE question...does this essay accurately portray who I am as a person? I knew that if I got rejected I wanted them to reject me, not some ideal candidate I am trying to be. So my advice in the essay is to let the adcom know who you are...this is your only chance pre-interview to do this, so take advantage. To me, that's the sign of a good essay

 

Hope that helped,

 

CTU24

[Guest sparkle]

With regards to EC, CTU24 is absolutely right. And to further add, its not so the quantity but the quality of work you do (i.e. being a member of every single student organization means nothing if you rarely participate whereas being an active member of just one would mean so much more in terms of experience etc.)

 

antissa,

Because you are only in you're second year, you should understand that you have to much more time to explore in extracurricular areas that you would be interested in...this is definitely a plus for you!! It's hard for the schools to expect a second year student to have the whole lot of experience you would expect from someone who perhaps graduated and worked/travel for a few years. In fact, from what I recall, one of my feedback forms from a school indicated the amount of experience I had relative to my age (in a good way)...so they may take that into consideration!!

[Guest caper81]

Hi antissa,

No need to apologize for hijacking. This is a web forum so you and anybody else are free to post to it. As to your situation, here is my own two cents. Your GPA is awesome, just keep that up! As for the EC stuff, I read in a post somewhere that states that it’s a lot easier to add more EC (if needed) then to increase one GPA, or something like that. So I wish I would have focused more on my GPA, like what you did, and then focus on EC if you think they are weak.

 

To everybody else, again thanks for the input! The advice and suggestion are amazing! Before this, I was 50/50 on whether to apply or not this year. But now, I am leaning more toward applying this year, antissa I think you should apply too. And if we don’t get in, at least we get the knowledge/experience for next year application, like everybody on this forum was saying.

 

P.S. I also posted a MCAT question on the “MCAT Forum” concerning what book to use to study for the MCAT. It would be great if any of you guys (girls) would read the post, I think I called it, “ExamCracker or Princeton Review” and give me advice on that. It just seems that when you post a question on the “General Premed Discussion Forum” you get a lot more response!

[Guest antissa]

Thanks Makunouchi, CTU24, sparkle, caper81!

 

Yeah, I was on the fence but I guess I really have nothing to lose by applying this year. Good luck caper, and everyone else! As for MCAT books... I know nothing about either Examkrackers or PR, but I'm using Kaplan, and the materials are pretty good

[Guest s sadry]

hey ollie so western grants an interview to anyone wiht the 3.7 in two years??

[Guest Ollie]

hey ollie so western grants an interview to anyone wiht the 3.7 in two years??

 

Yes, but the 3.7 can change from year to year. And you have to make the MCAT cutoffs, which can also change. Check out the Western forum for details.

[Guest s sadry]

great thanks