Job Shadow help!

[Guest jaylily]

I've finally found a doc who is able to let me job shadow her, and while I already know of some questions I will have for her, and am sure I'll come up with more when I'm there, I was just wondering if any of you ol' pros have any tips for me.

I"m shadowing a GP in a clinical setting and will also be talking with another doc that works in a hospital setting.

Since most of you have had some clinical experience in med school, what are some of the things I should be looking for, or asking. I just want to get the absolute most out of this experience.

Thanks!

[Guest coastalslacker]

Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but shadowing a doctor isn't too exciting, it's only when they actually let you do something that it's cool. Rather than asking other people what questions to ask, I would ask yourself what questions you have about the profession (I'm assuming you're not in yet). Job-shadowing is an opportunity to ascertain whether you could actually see yourself doing that job. However, the experience is, don't put too much stock in it-following various doctors around this year some have been incredible, and others terrible-there's lots of variety.

 

cheers

 

graham

[Guest endingsoon]

Totally agree...the problem with job shadowing as a premed is that really its not a great learning experience. You cannot go in and see patients, and in most cases patients are not too receptive to having a premedical student sit in and listen to their complaints. As well, its not like that doctor can teach you anything either or quiz you on stuff....its a bit of a strange arrangement.

 

Really the only benefit of shadowing is to see if you want to be a doctor. However, you are only seeing 1 doctor in 1 clincial setting....you may have a bad experience and be turned off medicine simply b.c this one doctor has a unqiue way of doing things. Also, this is not the best extracurric activity either....writing you spent 2 afternoons following someone around is not the same as volunteering for a summer in a hospital and acutally seeing many facets of medicine at work while also helping take care of patients in some small way.

 

So, its a decent thing to do as it is a small time commitment, but I would not expect to get a ton out of this other than a flavour of how a GPs day might be. I would focus my questions on asking the person what made them chose their speciality, what did they think of their medical school, what their typical work day is like, time commitments, etc.

[Guest Jochi1543]

I disagree with the generalization that it's not a good learning experience or that you can't go and see patients. This may be applicable if the physician is employed by a large hospital, but if you try going into a community clinic instead, the situation may be very different. I'm a volunteer at a community clinic and not only do the MDs let us do things that require quite a bit of responsibility (i.e. abortion referrals, rape counseling, etc), but they actually ask us if we wanna observe certain procedures, with the patients' permission of course. So you can learn quite a bit there, and interact with patients a lot as well.

Also, you can always watch a surgery if surgery's a field you're interested in. I watched my first surgery simply because I wanted to explore my tolerance level for blood and such (I used to nearly faint just hearing about blood when I was a kid) - it was a breast reduction. Once they realized I wasn't gonna pass out, they let me stand right by the patients' head. The doctor was extremely nice and helpful, he explained everything he was doing to me, and we also had a general chat about pre-med and med school-related issues. He confessed to me that he had failed general chem on his first try.:rollin

I also watched a second surgery, hysteroscopy/polyectomy which went bad - the doctor punctured the patient's uterus. Watching a surgery gone bad was also quite an experience and I was personally surprised at how it was handled.

Anyway, the point is if you go to the right place and ask the right people in the right way, you can see pretty much everything you want.

The only thing I was not able to observe was an autopsy because of the state legal regulations (I'd have to be in my last 2 years of med school to be allowed to do that). Nevertheless, the medical examiner invited me to his office and I questioned him about the profession for an hour and then he gave me a tour of the facility.

Good luck!

[Guest tim23]

did you really do rape counselling as a pre-med??

[Guest Jochi1543]

Yeah, still doing it. They give us specific training in regards to pregnancy and assault issues though.

[Guest endingsoon]

yeah, still doing it. They give us specific training in regards to pregnancy and assault issues though

 

Uhmm,,,this is really not the norm to be honest. Pre-med students being allowed to scrub in during an OR? Seeing patients by yourself? I have never heard of anything like this before. I would consider yourself fortunate but would not by any means get anyones hopes up that this is what happens routinely.

 

There are really 2 main reasons why this does not happen:

 

1) Legal - If a medical student is putting in a central line and gives a patient a pneumothorax, even if the patient sues, the doctor and the student will be covered. However, if a pre-med does something less dramatic, such as forgetting to ask a patient about smoking who later turns out to have cancer, if that patient sues then who do you think is covered? No one!

 

2) Willingness - When a doctor lets medical students do a lot and trains them,their is usually an internal desire and pleasure in passing on their knowledge, quizing curious and bright minds, 'giving back' to the medical community, etc. With a premedical student, there is really nothing that the physician gets out of it. They don't get to teach or quiz you,they are not really passing along anything to you, and to top it off you really can' help them much either. So, even if they do take you on, I just can't seem them letting you do too much.

 

I think Jochi1543 has a great thing going, but I would not expect that shadowing a doctor would really usually equate to a similar experience.

[Guest Jochi1543]

Endingsoon, as far as the OR goes, I'm obviously not allowed to do anything, I just observe. The way I got to do that was begin volunteering at the hospital, which in itself was a rather non-demanding task where I basically just delivered stuff from place to place and such. I had a shift in Same Day Surgery weekly, and got to know the nurses pretty well, and the doctors have seen me in the recovery room as well. I simply came up to the Health Unit Coordinator and asked her if I could observe a surgery. She redirected me to the nurse who schedules all the surgeries, and we looked at the schedule together and I picked whatever I thought would be the most interesting thing to see. She then asked the staff doing that surgery and also the patient whether they'd mind having me there. They all agreed, I filled out a piece of paperwork concerning privacy issues, they retrieved my immunization record, and I was approved within a day.

 

As far as what I do in the community clinic goes, we of course have manuals that we keep with us at all times (for example, those that have lists of veneral diseases and their symptoms - I don't think I mentioned, but this is a family planning clinic, think Planned Parenthood minus abortion services). We also have specific paperwork we fill out when talking to a patient so that there's no possibility that we forget to ask a question. To give you an idea of things I do, we may have a patient coming in to get emergency contraception (morning after pill). I talk to her for about 5-10 minutes, fill out a form, and go get the medicine. The doctor stamps it without looking unless I tell her that certain answers raised my concerns about whether the patient should be given this medicine and whether it's safe for her. We are told which answers are "safe" and which ones merit a look at the health history and sometimes even a talk with the patient by the doctor. If her form is fine, I give her the medicine and then usually ask her whether she wants to consider a contraceptive method, if she says yes, I may tell her about various methods available on the market and help her choose a suitable method, for example, an IUD or the patch. However, as far as getting prescribed a specific medicine goes, she needs to see the doctor in person. However, we provide patients with guidance and advice. If there's a question I don't feel confident answering, I can always go in the back and ask the MD.

This was by no means a special arrangement, all volunteers are trained and are allowed to do those things. They also offer optional sexual assault and pregnancy options training, which I took, and now am allowed to help families deal with unwanted pregnancies or instruct a victim what to do if she had just been raped.

I stumbled upon this job by accident, a friend was volunteering there, and I needed to see a doc, and she told me about the clinic since it was close by. I had a very good experience with the volunteer and the doctor, and when I saw a poster advertising volunteer opportunities, I signed up. I have to say, without this, I probably wouldn't have realized I wanted to go into medicine. It gives me a lot of exposure to patients and it teaches me to deal with difficult situations and people who are feeling emotionally unstable.

 

I hope this helps some. I really don't feel like my situation is that exceptional, you just have to look a little harder and I'm sure you could find something similar.

[Guest tim23]

do you seriously not think your situation is exceptional??

 

I guess the first question I have to ask, is this in Canada? (not that I'd think the US is any different, just not familiar with it) if not then that might explain some things.... otherwise, I doubt the goverment with health care would allow rape victims to be seen by a volunteer when they are going to a clinc- its not really a legally sound idea, someone qualified (no offense) should be paid for this service. I've been volunteering in a hospital for several years and there is no way that I would ever be allowed to concole rape victims, nor would i feel in any way qualified, thats some serious **** for a pre-med. It not like there's some quick course and your qualified, you'd have to be an experienced nurse or physcologist minimum.

 

also, I know 1st year med students who have been turned away from viewing some procedures let alone pre-meds (i think it was U of C).

 

Tim

[Guest Jochi1543]

It's in the US. In the end, you can have your own opinions about what I do, but the reality is, I do it, and other people can too.

[Guest everyoneloveschem]

I have been shadowing a GP now for a while and my experience has also been great. I take histories (without the Dr in the room), I get to listen to him finish up with pts, do the exams and if he does procedures I can watch/try to help. I think you just have to find someone who enjoys teaching/showing and someone you will mesh with personality-wise. I would recommend it to anyone.

[Guest marbledust]

I doubt the goverment with health care would allow rape victims to be seen by a volunteer when they are going to a clinc- its not really a legally sound idea, someone qualified (no offense) should be paid for this service.

 

I think you really need to look at what type of training is involved with a volunteer position like this. Volunteer opportunites like this do exist, but they usually involve intensive training and time committments. I don't know if commenting on whether someone is qualified or not is really fair. This person hasn't outlined what exact training she recieved. I would also assume that there is a fair level of supervision. There are tons of services that work together in a hospital setting--many of which are not "medical" per say and take on volunteers. Maybe this counselling service is a special program. And every hospital is going to have different policies, procedures, etc. Maybe because this case is specific to the US, that makes a difference. I don't know.

 

Another thing, just because a person is "pre-med" doesn't mean they have no other educational or employment experience--maybe this person comes from a background that has provided her skills and experience that would leave her "qualifed."

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah, I found a HUGE difference between opportunities to 'Job Shadow' as a premed and as a med student. I never got any great responses from any of the doctors I asked about shadowing. Of course, doctors probably get numerous requests for this, and before you're 'in' med school, there's no guarantee you'll even come close to getting into med school. . .

 

If you get the opportunity to follow a doctor around for a day, take it. It's a great chance to see what a day in the life of a doctor is in 'the real world.' But I do have to agree that after a days you might find this a bit boring without being able to do stuff.

 

And if someone offers to let you do stuff as a premed - DECLINE THE OFFER. You are NOT covered by malpractice insurance. And you definitely don't want to be named in a malpractice suit without insurance to cover your lawyer bills, even if the suit is bogus. . .

 

For that matter, you should know you could be named in a lawsuit for just being present when a medicolegal situation arises. It's much rarer in clinic, but can happen. . . just be aware.

 

That sexual assualt counselling position sounds like a great experience! But I'm sure it was tough. . . I've found working with sexual assault victims to be among the toughest things I've had to do in medicine (then again, a lot of my experience with this comes from rural South Africa, where many of the victims were < 12 yo)

[Guest endingsoon]

have been shadowing a GP now for a while and my experience has also been great. I take histories (without the Dr in the room), I get to listen to him finish up with pts, do the exams and if he does procedures I can watch/try to help. I think you just have to find someone who enjoys teaching/showing and someone you will mesh with personality-wise. I would recommend it to anyone.

 

What? Are you serious, or better yet, are you in medical school? How can a premed student do any of this??

 

Do histories and physical exams? Like how do you even how how to do a physical exam, or what to ask on histories?

 

This sounds more like you are in medical school if you are doing all of this.

[Guest lex]

To give a north of the border perspective, I did this kind of stuff in a clinic I worked in before attending med school. It's really a matter of trust. I'm a first year med student now who goes into family doc offices, takes histories, performs exams and minor procedures, etc. and for a number of the things I do, my training hasn't been very substantial relative to that pre med school. I put in IUD's now but have never received training outside of my tutor's office. As a shadow in the clinic before, I learned as we went along, not unlike I, as a med student, do on the wards and in the clinics now.

 

If you take a history and report it back to the doc, she/he can decide whether you did an appropriate job or not. Also, what you're assessing for a history makes a big difference. A sprained ankle doesn't require a med student.

 

Re. rape counselling: most of this is done outside of doctors' offices anyways and it's just a matter of appropriate training. Rape counsellors at women's shelters get far more training than we will/do as med students and are thus far more qualified to perform this delicate task. There's no reason a premed wouldn't be able to get this type of training.

 

I'll add the caveat that most shadowing won't be that exciting. However, if you've managed to find people that are willing to involve you, then I'd suggest you take advantage of it. Just make sure that you and the doc have a good understanding of where you're each coming from though. You should also sign a confidentiality agreement and define the boundaries of your relationship.

 

Also, make sure that each patient knows you're not a medical student and that they're ok with the situation.

[Guest everyoneloveschem]

Okay, time to clarify.

 

I watch the doctor finish up, and do the exam. I have done maybe 2 BP readings and I always warn the person in advance that they probably won't be able to do any fine crafts once I'm done.

 

Yes I take histories. Then the doctor comes in, reads what I wrote and elaborates or corrects things and proceeds with the visit. I've been doing it know for at least a year and I know a lot of them, so it is often quite routine. Yes, there are sometimes very akward histories, and if the pt is looking very uncomfortable I duck out and grab the MD to do it, because it isn't fair for me to make them uncomfortable if it really for my benefit. I always make it very clear that I am TRYING to get into med school, that I am not a nurse and that I have no real knowledge. I do not give out results or explanations. I figure I am like a giant sponge that can type.

 

I know how lucky I have been to have this chance. Even if I never get it I will not regret the time I have spent shadowing.

[Guest Jochi1543]

I forgot to address the statement made earlier by someone that doctors don`t get anything out of having someone follow them around. The very reason why they have volunteers taking on quite a bit of responsibility at our clinic is so that the MD has more time to deal with cases that do indeed merit her attention (positive STI results, various infections, miscarriages, etc). In the end, when a patient first comes in to say, get started on some contraception method, it`s all the same information that you have to share with every patient. With an average MD in the US seeing 60 patients and spending even just 15 minutes on one, having a volunteer do these types of things is extremely efficient. We don`t make decisions - we educate and recommend.

[Guest cloversista]

Hi Jochi1543,

Your volunteer work sounds really interesting and somewhat similar to what I used to do in London. I was actually trying to find some volunteer work of that nature in Toronto...could you please provide me with a location/name of this clinic?

Thanks!

[Guest Jochi1543]

My clinic is in Minnesota, so I doubt it will be of any use to you....but if you still want it, just PM me.:smokin (it's a very small place, so I feel like it might not be the best piece of info to disclose on the internet)