Feasible to hold a part-time job while in med school?

[Guest Jochi1543]

I'm very concerned about the financial consequences of going to medical school and paying for it myself. I'm not living with my parents or anything like that, so even though I hope to get a loan that will cover tuition, I still have food and rent to worry about. I'm taking 2 years off between college and med school to save up a little money, but during the first year I will be finishing up some credits, so I will only work about 30 hrs a week and therefore wouldn't be able to save anything. Hopefully I can save up some $10,000 during the second year, but realistically, this will only cover a year's worth of living expenses and I'm in medical school for 4 years. Whatever I might make in the summer will at best cover half a year's worth of expenses. Naturally, I'm hoping that I would have an opportunity to work at least some 5-10 hours a week while in medical school. Is this a reasonable expectation or should I just forget about it?

 

If working part-time is too challenging, are there any solutions for me? Can I apply for a loan at a bank that I could use to cover my living expenses? (I'm currently in the US and am not too familiar with the details of living in Canada). Being a decent-looking female, I'm considering making a website where members can pay to receive pictures of me, exclusive chats, etc - a female acquaintance has been able to sustain herself entirely off of her website customers. This would allow me for more free time than a regular job. However, this type of income is not predictable and I don't know how successful I would be. My parents are not really in the picture when it comes to financial matters despite the fact that we share a right for $20,000 they had put in the bank as part of the immigration requirement (we're all permanent residents).

 

Thanks for any advice.

[Guest Lactic Folly]

A number of medical students will obtain a line of credit from a bank to supplement their student loans.. see the forum "Med School Orientation" for more threads relating to this.

[Guest endingsoon]

A number of people (including myself) had part-time jobs while in medical school. My job was a little more relaxed, but some people worked regular shifts as well. This is usually only in the first couple of years though (its impossible during clerkship). Also you can work during the summers a little harder to make that cash.

[Guest medicator007]

I worked part time during the first two years of medical school and every now and then during clerkship to keep my skills up and have some cash flow. It is certainly doable, but it all depends on what you want to do in addition to working and medical school and also on the nature of your job. A plus for me was that I could study at work and got quite a good deal of my reading done then.

 

Hope that helps,

Medicator

[Guest coastalslacker]

Most med students can get lines of credit for 150k at prime. If I wanted to have a job right now, there definitely would be lots of time. Clerkship, I have heard, would be a different story. My philosophy is that I'm going to be making good money when I'm done, so I'd rather enjoy my free time now than work.

[Guest leviathan]

Provided you can get the funding from the bank + government, it's a much better idea to not skip any time to work before med school. You're just taking away years to make 15-20,000/year that you could be making a doctor's salary with instead. If you want to work during your time in med school, well it all depends on how capable you are of managing your time and handling both school + work.

[Guest Jochi1543]

For me it's not just the issue of money, I started pre-med relatively late, so I still have to finish some courses after graduation, including Organic chem which I will need for the MCAT. Until I work my ass off studying the entire Organic course on my own in 3 months (while simultaneously studying for other MCAT subjects), waiting less than 2 years is not an option. I graduate next spring (May 2006), and even then, I could at best take the August 2006 MCAT and apply that fall. That would still be a year in between college graduation and med school entrance. Given that I will be a new immigrant without a job or anything waiting for me when I arrive, I'm doubting my ability to work enough to pay my rent while going through the entire organic chem on my own in 3 months, AND studying for the MCAT - I will need to settle down and find my way around Vancouver.

[Guest physiology]

I teach grade school math on the weekends part-time and I also privately tutor, for a total of ~4 hours per week.

 

I'm also committed to some research projects, so I have that as well. It's doable, but it really forces you to be efficient and "study smart."

[Guest wattyjl]

hey physiology - you mentioned that you're committed to some research projects, would you mind expanding on that a bit? basically i'm wondering if you're talking about benchwork or paperwork, basic or clinical science. just wondering as i (should i be fortunate enough to get in this year) am thinking about the feasibilty of continuing a research project (*maybe* as an 'official' post-doc, if possible) throughout medschool. do you have any time to participate in the other aspects of medschool/your life?

 

thanks.

[Guest coastalslacker]

Something to remember about asking other people whether they have time to participate in other aspects of their life if they do 'x', 'y' or 'z', is that everyone has a different definition of life. This isn't a slight on anyone in particular, I just find it interesting that so many people ask others "how they do it" or "if they can manage", when the response is irrelevant because a social life for them may consist of a 15 minute chat at the bus stop and the ten minutes between each class.

 

We had a general surgeon come in to give us the skinny on the time commitments of gen surg for both residency and once one is done. He thought that working 70-80 hours a week, while difficult, allowed "lots" of time for family and other things. As he said 70-80 hours I mentally crossed gen surg off my list. It's allllll relative.

 

cheers,

 

graham

[Guest wattyjl]

coastalslacker/recently-liberated graham - i totally agree, however, the response isn't irrelevant if they include details on what they have and have not been able to do in their spare time. of course everyone is different and while some need to be go go go and others not so much (e.g. me), i'm interested to know what physiology did in terms of research as while i've heard about someone through someone through someone doing a 'postdoc' while in medschool, i have never been able to actually talk to someone doing it.

 

i mean, the whole purpose of this board (or a major purpose of it, for me anyway) is for others to share their experiences, and though that can never be directly applicable to another individuals personal situation, it isn't entirely irrelvant either.

 

ok, i'm exiting defensive-mode now...

 

james.

[Guest coastalslacker]

Irrelevant was perhaps an ill-chosen word. I get what you're saying, and I agree to a certain extent.

[Guest endingsoon]

I don't think 70-80hrs is excessive at all, I would be glad to work that amount

 

So yeah I do think its relative...for me that would have been fine and not like 100hrs or something that I might balk at.

[Guest medeng]

I don't know if this answers your question as it is more 2nd hand info, but there was a rad-onc resident at Princess Margaret (if you want to know more details PM me... I don't exactly feel comfortable giving out all their details here) who held a part-time faculty position at Ryerson (including research) while doing med school and residency. This person would definitely fall into the super-motivated 100+hours per week category though...

[Guest walton1]

Hey all,

 

A few people here have mentioned that their work complements med school rather than detracts from it, e.g., physiology mentioned he had plenty of time for quiet reading, those who do med research might improve their understanding of physiology (the science not the guy)....

 

And that's not a small point at all, that's really important! I think if the opposite were true -- if the job hours weren't controllable, for example -- it would be a good idea to drop the job.

 

Sometimes people seem really keen about doing all sorts of stuff besides what they are supposed to be doing. Art in medicine, sports, research, and staying out of debt are all great things, but it is relatively safe to dabble in these, whereas if someone were to head into meds with the thought of just dabbling in it.... maybe they should consider other careers.

 

So... go over your acid-base stuff again or memorize the PORT criteria or something rather than flipping burgers!

 

 

wally

[Guest marbledust]

Sometimes people seem really keen about doing all sorts of stuff besides what they are supposed to be doing. Art in medicine, sports, research, and staying out of debt are all great things, but it is relatively safe to dabble in these, whereas if someone were to head into meds with the thought of just dabbling in it.... maybe they should consider other careers.

 

I understand the sentiment behind this, but it really isn't a fair statement. People go into medicine (or law or education, etc) for a whole bunch of different reasons. Likewise, there is a range in what people hope to get out of medical school or what they want to do with their MD degrees. There are people I know who believe school is everything--and that's fine But there are also those who see school as only one part of their lives--this group includes me.

 

Just because a person chooses to work or pursue outside interests while going to school (as I did), it doesn't make them any less committed or constitute "dabbling" in medicine. I worked through undergrad, grad school, and the first 1.5 years of med school. A great deal of the time I worked 30-40 hours a week on top of school. Sometimes I did it because I had to, and at other points I did it out of choice. I liked what I was doing and made it fit with school. It's a personal thing--some people like to work while going to school, others don't. Some people need to do it, and others don't. The same thing applies to sports, research, music, etc.

 

You can make school your entire life if you want. But you don't have to--it's a personal decision. School is always there, other opportunities may not come around again. I don't think time is "better spent learning" if you are using your time to do things that make you happy, or contributes to your community, or even helps ensure you are not going to be burdened by an impossible debt when you graduate. We all have different priorities and motivators

[Guest coastalslacker]

Before I got into med school I would have completely agreed with the statement that I should be devoting as much time to medicine as possible to be "the best doctor that I can be" (insert appropriate synonymous cheesy phrase, if you like). Since starting, only recently, I've realized that I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life and I'm never going to know everything. As marbledust said, time is definitely not "better spent learning" if you're doing things you enjoy.

 

I was breaking down my 'ideal' day yesterday, based on current interests and it involved some time outside kicking a soccer ball around, at least an hour of non-meds reading, at least an hour of working out/running, at least half an hour learning to play the guitar, an hour with my girlfriend on the phone, and some social time. I've hit this happy medium for the last couple days and it's been great. I still spend lots of time studying, but there will always be more to learn so you have to set limits. Besides, this medicine stuff isn't that hard anyways.

 

cheers,

 

graham

 

however, for today, I do need to start studying!

[Guest walton1]

Hi marble & costal,

 

Nobody would advocate dedicating every moment to studying medicine. Personally, I spend a few hours running during the week, a few hours rehearsing with choirs, and by week's end have seen the equivalent of a mini film festival, not to mention a night out or two. I've thought of getting a job -- more of a social thing than a money thing -- and although I never mailed around my resume, I hadn't ever considered the possibililty of working 30 to 40 hours per week. I agree that it is ultimately a personal choice.

 

The point I wanted to make was an observation that sometimes these things can be taken to extremes and people's priorities can get -- in my view -- mixed up. I'm sure most med classes at every med school have at least 1 student who is, say, also on the university swim team or something. Is that a good idea? To the person doing it, the answer is yes; to me, when you're in med school, something has to give. Just 1 opinion, and this isn't meant as a personal criticism if this is true of someone here.

 

It is true that you can never learn everything, and it is true that you will be a very unpleasant person if all you do is work. It is up to us to figure out the right balance. I agree that phrases such as 'being the best doctor you can be' and 'time better-spent learning' are annoying, but I wonder if there is an over-reaction to these sentiments in the opposite direction.

 

 

wally

[Guest marbledust]

The point I wanted to make was an observation that sometimes these things can be taken to extremes and people's priorities can get -- in my view -- mixed up.

 

I understand what you are saying, but don't you think this is totally a value judgement? It is possible to study medicine and have other priorities--even priorities that may, at times, be more important than medical school. I went to a physican wellness talk last year where the doctor speaking commented that medicine is a job, not a cult. I think some people often forget that.

 

I'm sure most med classes at every med school have at least 1 student who is, say, also on the university swim team or something. Is that a good idea? To the person doing it, the answer is yes; to me, when you're in med school, something has to give. Just 1 opinion, and this isn't meant as a personal criticism if this is true of someone here.

 

I realize this is just your opinion, and not personal criticism. But, this really is a personal decision. If an individual feels that they have the time and resources to do something like this, who are you (or anybody else...I am not intending to pick on you Wally) to judge how they should be spending their time or where their priorities lie? This is just my opinion and not meant to criticize you.

 

I agree that phrases such as 'being the best doctor you can be' and 'time better-spent learning' are annoying, but I wonder if there is an over-reaction to these sentiments in the opposite direction.

 

Given the high rates of burnout, drug and alcohol abuse, broken marriages, etc among physicians, I think an attitude shift in the "opposite direction" is needed.

[Guest wattyjl]

i think because medicine is such a competetive field to enter into that for many it requires thinking (at least in premed hopefuls) that your job defines much of your life.

 

my observations, as someone who if lucky will be getting in the easy way (postgrad), is that many of the people posting on this board (esp. premed forums) and many of the undergrad premeds i've met have to or feel they have to devote most of their lives, sometimes as early as late-highschool, to 'getting into medschool'. it consumes them. so much of what they do, including in their 'free time', is done with the thought that it will look good on an application.

 

i realize that the small sample size i have had contact with will not be representative of all individuals applying, nor perhaps representative of all individuals receiving offers of admission, but there is certainly a sub-population of individuals that are living most of their life to get themselves into medschool.

 

now, try and tell those individuals that medicine, when you're practicing, shouldn't be the predominant focus of their life... well i guess some of them are going to have a hard time accepting/understanding this?

 

i guess as long as you happy, and competent, then whatever balance of work and play you are using to achieve that status is up to you. i like the comment about burnout/drug abuse, etc. i'm sure it's an important consideration that many of us looking to go into medicine don't think much about. in fact, i haven't heard much about it at all...

[Guest marbledust]

my observations, as someone who if lucky will be getting in the easy way (postgrad), is that many of the people posting on this board (esp. premed forums) and many of the undergrad premeds i've met have to or feel they have to devote most of their lives, sometimes as early as late-highschool, to 'getting into medschool'. it consumes them. so much of what they do, including in their 'free time', is done with the thought that it will look good on an application.

 

I didn't know there was an "easy way" into medicine. You should write a book--you would be rich!

 

Regarding your other comments, what you say is true of the pre-med mentality of many students. However, as most people who have gone through the admissions process or have been involved with admissions committees will tell you, medical schools are looking for well-rounded individuals. This means having a life and interests outside of applying to medical school--ie devoting your time and energy to other things.

 

It's true....

[Guest tim23]

as an aside, your job prospect,

 

"Being a decent-looking female, I'm considering making a website where members can pay to receive pictures of me, exclusive chats, etc "

 

it is probably not a good idea for someone in med school, its not exactly professional behavior. If your comfortable using your looks for money try waitressing or something else in the service industry.

 

Tim