Competitive Programs

[Guest vicervixen]

It seems like the only "competitive" program that people talk about in these boards is McMaster Health Sciences. What other competitive programs are there that would fully prepare you for Medical School?

[Guest Elaine I]

Here's my little plug again...

 

U of T Scarborough has a new combined paramedic program with Centennial College. Graduates receive both a paramedic diploma (received after year 3) and an honours bachelor degree (received after year 4). Essentially, that means that you can work as a paramedic during the summer between 3rd and 4th year, as well as your first couple of summers as a medical student (ie:really, really good pay for a summer job!). You also have a back-up plan if it takes an extra year or two to get into medicine. Many of the skills of a paramedic are applicable to that of a physician (eg: history taking, physical assessments, IVs, intubation).

 

Unlike many other health care professionals, paramedics are encouraged to advance their training, including pursuing medicine. I'm one of several of us at Toronto EMS who is attempting to get into med school, and none of us had the advantage of a paramedic degree. In other words, we had to go back to do undergrad first. Due to the nature of the business, employers are happy to give leaves of absense for the school year provided you are willing to return the following summer.

 

Back to the original question - this program is quite competitive to get into, as it is the only one of its type (for now) in Ontario, and quite possibly Canada. However, once you are in the program, the competitiveness drops - many of your courses are with the college students (though you pay university tuition), which sometimes (but not always) means that you start further up the bell. Employers recognize that not many of us will be physically able to work as paramedics until we retire, and therefore, are willing to help us prepare for a second career, which is better for them than having to pay an injured paramedic to hold down a desk.

 

Elaine

[Guest vicervixen]

Thanks for the info! How do programs such as Medical Science at Western or Science programs at queens compare in regards to "competitiveness"?

[Guest richal257]

Hi Elaine, your post got me interested as I am in the midst of changing careers and will be returning to school next fall. Some questions about paramedicine I hope you can answer:

 

how are job prospects? do you think it will be good 5 years from now? in ontario, internationally...

 

how is the pay? what's average starting salary and how high can you go?

 

job satisfaction? what do you like best about being a paramedic?

 

how tough are the physical requirements?

 

cons to the job? anything you don't like?

 

thanks

[Guest medic77]

Thank you for that information Elaine I. I am a paramedic from Northern Ontario that would eventually love to attend medical school. I also recognize the fact that not many paramedics can work until retirement. Therefore I am upgrading so that I may attend university. Do you know if the collaborative degree program offers advanced standing to working medics? If so, how many credits for PCP? Do they offer bridging similar to R.N.'s obtaining B.Sc.N.?

 

Regards

[Guest pilotgrrl]

Awww...I was rejected from the McMaster Health Sciences program but still got into medicine at Queen's. In the end, it's about doing what you LOVE! Even if it means a physics major, pathobiology specialist and German minor at UT like me!

 

No seriously, some schools do not consider your program. It's more important that you have competitive marks and have a life outside of school.

[Guest Elaine I]

Hi there. I'll attempt to answer each of the questions asked about paramedicine.

 

Job prospects in Ontario are fabulous right now. I don't see any change in that in the near future. For several years in a row, Toronto EMS has hired everyone that passed their applicant screening (written test, scenario, physical test, driving test), and would have hired more had more grads been available. Other services are short as well.

 

I'm not sure where you are looking internationally. Ontario Primary Care Paramedics (PCPs - entry level) are highly trained, as compared to entry level paramedics from different provinces and parts of the world. Therefore, your qualifications will most likely be recognized as far as allowing you to work, but you may not be able to work to your same level of training elsewhere. It would probably be best to check on the specific places you are interested in going to.

 

I should also mention that Advanced Care Paramedic (ACP) training is a level that is much more standardized, and therefore, if you want to go elsewhere to work, I recommend training to the ACP level.

 

The pay of a paramedic is excellent. In Toronto, a top level PCP makes $31.21/hr (after 3 years - start at about $26/hr). A level 2 paramedic (only exist in Toronto) makes $32.77/hr. An ACP makes $34.41/hr. A Critical Care Paramedic makes $39.92/hr. We just settled our contract, which will result in a 3% increase in 2006, a 3.25% increase in 2007 and a 6.25% increase in 2008. In addition to our hourly wage, we get paid a shift bonus (for working 12 hour shifts) of either $0.75 or $1.50/hr depending upon the shift. We also get paid 10 minutes at OT rate (x1.5) to wash up each day, and 10 minutes at OT rate to lock up our narcotics. If we are late getting our lunch, we get 30 minutes at OT rate, in addition to still getting our lunch later in the shift.

 

Certainly paramedics in Toronto do get well paid. Durham Region paramedics are paid just as much per hour, but don't have the extra "bonuses" we do. Most Greater Toronto Area paramedics make within a couple of dollars an hour, and most Ontario paramedics make within $5 an hour of us.

 

In addition, in Toronto, if I get injured on the job, I will forever be paid as a level 3 paramedic (my current level) including all future raises, regardless of what other job I end up doing. That is significant, as paramedics are the highest paid employees in our union.

 

I do like being a paramedic, and don't regret the time I've spent in this field. I have what is referred to as a "black cloud", which seems to mean that I get a lot of very high acuity patients. For example, on Friday, I had two patients requiring intubation, 2 pre-arrest chest pain patients and one patient with a blood pressure of 50/30. That said, it is well known that most paramedics don't usually get that many truly sick patients in a shift.

 

On days that are slower, I sometimes get frustrated at what people call 911 for. For example, I once got a call for a 35 year old male who drank sour milk. There was nothing wrong with him, but he thought that was appropriate use of 911. We are not allowed to refuse anyone a ride to the hospital. That said, in Toronto, we are given a lot of latitude regarding presenting other options to people.

 

Each paramedic reports to a Base Hospital physician. We report to Sunnybrook. What I like about our base hospital is that we are treated as colleagues. Our docs truly respect us as knowledgable health care teammates. We are given a lot of latitude in the interpretation of our medical directives. In addition, if we need to do more than we have a directive for, but are unable to contact them, we are allowed to go ahead. For example, I had a really bad pediatric head injury once. I was attempting to get further sedation orders from the physician (via a radio patch). I was in the back of a moving ambulance, and the reception was really bad. After a couple of tries, I told the doc that I didn't have the time to continue our conversation (due to the patient's condition). I told her I was going to proceed as I believe she would order, and call her after the call to let her know what I did. She was absolutely okay with that. After the call, she told me she was glad I cut off the conversation, since I was obviously too busy to talk with her.

 

I should say that we are spoiled in Toronto (and Peel - they now share our base hospital). I have worked for other services where paramedics are told to follow the medical directives to the letter, and if they don't do so, then they are "practising medicine without a license". I actually got in trouble once for withholding Glucagon from a patient, because she was able to eat, so instead I gave her juice. I was told that since the patient fell within the protocol, I had no right not to follow it. Needless to say, I knew that that wasn't the base hospital for me to work under.

 

I believe that my years as a paramedic (I've been one for 6 years) will truly help me be a better physician, and hopefully make certain aspects of medical school easier. I am comfortable talking with and interviewing patients. I don't have a fear of touching people to do physical exams. I have a lot of experience with certain skills (eg: BPs, IVs, drawing bloods, ECG interpretation, intubation) is much less than ideal settings. Becoming proficient at these skills will be one less thing that I have to do as a clerk.

 

The physical requirements, by the book, are to lift a 160lbs patient up and down a set of stairs, with the help of your partner, using a 35lbs stair chair. However, I caution you that while they say that 160lbs is the average adult weight, that also means that 50% of people weigh more than that. My personal theory is that 160lbs people don't have heart attacks. (Of course that's not actually true, but my point is that many of the people that we see weight in excess of 250 or even 300lbs.) Yes, you can always call for help with your lifts. However, if you do so for every patient that weighs 200lbs, you will soon have the reputation of not being able to lift. One way to have trouble finding partners is to not be able to lift. After all, if your partner can't lift, you get hurt. The other thing about calling for help - sometimes there just isn't the time to wait. When you have a patient who is literally dying in front of you, you need to provide quick, effective treatment, including what we refer to as "accelerator therapy" (ie: get them to the hospital, where there are more than two sets of hands!). (There are exceptions to this rule of course - for example, choking patients - we are told to stay on scene as long as it takes to clear the airway, including doing a surgical airway, because if you transport, you are just transporting a corpse.)

 

For me, I like the diversity of the job, as well as the challenge. While many of our calls are non-essential, those that are, are challenging. It is just you and your partner. There is (usually) only one ACP per call, so it is up to you to make the decisions and run the call. Personally, I also like the chance to help people who are grieving. I like the opportunity to help people who have just lost a loved one (after working the arrest, or not, depending upon the family's wishes). I also like to get involved in patient education, which you have the opportunity to do if you choose to.

 

My reasons for leaving the profession include wanting to be busier. (Yes, I do work in the busiest service in the province; however, we still get down time and I get bored.) I also want to be able to live in a more rural community, but I would be even more bored working as a paramedic there! I desire a more lasting relationship with my patients and there families. While we can do some education, it is quite limited compared to that a family doctor can do. Eventually, I would like to stop working shift work. While I really like my weekdays off, I don't like that I have to work 2 out of 6 weekends.

 

As far as collaborative degrees - there are two that I can think of off the top of my head. Athabasca University offers a BSc Post Diploma in Human Sciences (and in General Sciences). These are four year general degrees (ie: be careful if you are interested in UWO) for which paramedics are given two years of transfer credits. (PCPs may only get one year - I'm not sure.) I've completed most of the courses toward this degree, and enjoyed it. If you are working in a slower service, you may enjoy the opportunity to do an all distance ed program.

 

Ryerson University offers a Bachelor of Health Administration (honours equivalent, according to UWO admissions), which is a degree completion. All levels of paramedics (as well as other health care professionals) are admitted directly into third year. This was the degree that I completed when I first returned to university. I really loved it, especially the diversity of the different health care professionals. I also believe that the degree will help me as a physician (ethics, health law, Canadian Health System, etc.). Many of the courses are offered by distance ed. Most are offered in the modular format (condensed over weekends, allowing for people from out of town to attend).

 

There may be other collaborative degrees available, but these are the two that I know of. Both have their pros and cons. Personally, of the two, I enjoyed the Ryerson degree more. However, that could be because I prefer in-person classes more than distance ed.

 

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

 

Thanks,

Elaine

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

Most medical schools do not factor in the "competitiveness" of any given undergraduate or graduate program during the admissions process. "Competitiveness" itself is ridiculously hard to measure and is hugely subjective. Even for those schools which do take note of the nature of your undergraduate program, this note is a wee drop relative to the sea that constitutes the remainder of your medical school application package. Evidence of that is the wild composition of academic backgrounds of the cohorts of current medical school students.

 

In short, if you're going to spend some effort in tailoring your academic planning decisions to gaining entry to medical school, then it might be more beneficial for you to spend your energy looking at the composition of the factors that weigh most in the various application processes. Marks and extracurricular activities and achievements displayed via essays and sketches are the big two. Taking the more academic of the big two, that means that the nature of the academic program generally is less significant than how you perform in it. In short, as others have mentioned above, do what you love.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen