Degree at UBC

[Guest MattMed]

Hi i'm a first year sudent in sciences at ubc and I'm lost on what degree to choose. My ultimate goal is med school so I've mainly thought of physiology, biochem, or biology for my major but the more I look at it, it seems that most students applying to med are those degrees. If this is the case I guess I would really have to stand out with a great GPA and a enormous amount of extracurricular. I really don't know what to do and was wondering if any of you could give me some pointers on maybe something you wished you had done or something like that.

 

THX.

[Guest not rex morgan]

I really wish I had a degree in pharmacy right about now.

[Guest soapyslicer]

I think if you scan the pre-med discussion page you will find everyone give the advice of take something that really interests you. If that is arts-take it!!! In the long run you will just need to make sure you do well in the science pre-req's and the MCAT science sections. There are many students in med who do not have BSc's. It is much easier to get good marks in something your interested in. Four years is a long time and what med is really looking is a strong well rounded student.

 

soapy

[Guest physiology]

Hey MattMed,

 

My suggestion = pharmacology

 

You get surgical experience with animals, get to learn physiology and pharmacology that equals that of med students. Ie, you know the drugs, how they work, and thereason why they work in the body and/or cause side effects.

I've had a few med students say "Ohh..I wish I had taken pharmacology!"

 

It's also flexible, majors/honours and coop options.

 

Pharmacy is a great option - but 1st year pharmacy is a killer because of the sheer number of hard courses you have to take.

 

And the class is small ~18 students, which is remarkable for any class at UBC.

 

And yes, I'm very biased because I'm in pharmacology

[Guest EMHC]

Hi

 

My suggestion => also Pharmacology

 

I second the reasons given by the previous poster. As well, you don't have to write a thesis like Physiology because it's an Honors degree.

 

Everyone is going to say do what you like cause you're doing it for the long haul, but what some ppl want to hear is what WILL get them into medicine. (Did that get your attention)

 

Thing is if you read the website info for UBC Meds, they have it clear that they want a diverse class. Hence, if you had a Biology degree and there were also 400 other Bio majors applying, what makes you any more different? You'll have to work on other things in your EC to make yourself really stand out. On the other hand if you were an Engineering student majoring Engineering Physics (and still have the grades to apply :eek ) now how many of you would be applying into meds. Probably just yourself.

 

From my little talk above find out how many Pharmacology students there are in fact. Then go to the UBC Meds web site and read the section that tells you what Adcom is looking for (...well rounded blah blah blah).

 

This is the impression that I got after speaking to one of the people at admissions.

 

Does anyone agree with me?

 

EMHC

[Guest Ollie]

I'm not sure if there is really any advantage/disadvantage to taking any particular major. In fact they do explicitly state "Students planning to apply for admission to the Doctor of Medicine program should select courses which conform with the requirements of a bachelor's degree of their choice. No particular degree program is considered ideal as preparation for the study and practice of medicine. A variety of premedical academic backgrounds is considered desirable."

 

Now as to whether that last part means that they try to select people with varying undergrad majors, I'm not sure. My personal feeling is no. As long as your stats are up there, I don't really see your major being a deciding factor. Also I don't know if it's really valid to look at the majors of accepted students. Programs like Pharamacology are quite competitive to get into in the first place. So the average Pharmacology student is probably going to have pretty high grades and a better change of getting in based on that than on their major alone.

 

So my advice is like a number of other people. There are no guarantees that you will get into medicine. Your major doesn't have to be the thing you want to do with the rest of your life, but it does have to be what you will want to do for the next three years!

[Guest UBClebronjames]

The most logical majors at UBC within sciences if you want to get into med are:

 

Assuming you don't have a preference for any subject (ie. chem, physics, etc) or don't necessarily like those topics you can either opt to choose an 'easy' (relative to other more time consuming, and rigorous majors like microbi, pharmacology, biochem) like bio-psychology or possibly dietetics. These two majors especially the former one are very interesting and not going to kill you GPA. In fact if you're sole purpose is to get high marks I suggest an easy route. Not to say that you can't get high marks with the more demanding majors... but your effort to marks ratio is better with bio-psych vs. pharmacology. I know cause I've taken courses within each program.

 

[bTW biopsych cognitive sciences courses run laps around dry courses that you feel you are only doing to get your degree. For me, in every other class I would learn something that truly made my mind do cartwheels.. such cool stuff. It's like that feeling you got in highschool when you learned about Einstein's theory of relativity and how time slows done at extreme speeds or how length of objects can change.. that WOW happens a lot in biopsych.]

 

BUT... If you also think that you need a backup plan I strongly suggest you also apply to pharmacy since it is THE safety net back-up plan if you fail to get into med or even if it takes you a number of years to get in. What other undergrad major on campus can have a 22 year old grade making $45 an hour and roughly 70,000 a year? That is some serious money at such a young age. And even if you get into med, you could easily pay off your tuition in one summer or work the odd weekend during the school year too.

 

hope this helps in your decision.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

CBC Radio One had a little piece on students in pharmacy programs the other day. Apparently, due to the severe drought in pharmacists, students graduating from undergraduate pharmacy programs are currently garnering MBA-like perks, e.g., huge hourly wages (as mentioned above, but higher ) and even larger signing bonuses. Some students are also signing offers with companies prior to entering these programs. Many of these offers include full tuition and stipend for the four years of the program in turn for a commitment of two years' work for the sponsor, post-graduation.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest coastal79]

Just wanted to chip in that it definitely is possible to go the non-science route if that is truly an interest you want to pursue prior to med school. I find science courses easier because they are primarily memory-based, but I took an English degree because it was something I was interested in (but not in a career way), and a science degree would have taken me an extra year (wasted first year pre-commerce....). I initially thought that my being different would perhaps be an advantage, now I think it is and it isn't. It is advantageous because medical schools do like diversity, however, my diversity isn't just in my degree, it's also in many other things I've done in my life. On the downside, I think I may have to prove more that I want to be a doctor. Most people find it strange that I would choose to study English while planning on going into medicine. Yesterday, at my interview at U of A, I was asked why not become a teacher instead of a doctor, rather than the typical question of why not be a nurse. I also got asked about doctors in literature, on which I drew a complete blank except for Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.....it wasn't pretty! As far as I can tell from looking at the various application processes, there is not any tangible advantage derived from having a "different" course of studies. It does show a breadth of interest (assuming you are actually interested) and give you something novel to talk about in an interview. The exceptions might be Calgary and Dalhousie, which, from what I read, may have a slight slight slight preference towards less conventional students.

 

If you do go BA, be careful, and understand that the backup plan isn't nearly as solid and cushy (or boring) as pharmacy.

 

Cheers

[Guest kupo]

its up to you what you want to do for your degree. Like others have said, choose a program that makes you happy and that you will do well in.

 

I chose Microbiology and Immunology because I wanted to learn the basis of disease. However, you are limited in the knowledge of human physiology and the mechanisms of a wide variety of drugs unless you take electives that cover that.

 

Benefits of this program:

1) learn the basis of bacterial and viral pathogenesis

2) learn the immune system to great detail

3) learn some of the theory behind the treatments, therapies, and vaccines

4) gain experience in how research is conducted

 

kupo

[Guest EMHC]

Oh hey, I got something else to add.

 

Pharmacy is a great program as you can see with the posts above but the grades will really hurt you >: . You won't be finishing your degree with a 85+ average because if I remember correctly from a post in the old UBC forum, there was only one 82% and then the second highest mark was 77%. Think anyone can tell me why it's so freaking hard to get good marks in Pharmacy?

 

Anyway, if you need a good solid back up plan I would recommend Commerce. I'm doing a Commerce degree myself (I suggested you to do Pharmacology in the last post because I assumed that you wanted to stay in Science and not verge from that path. But here's the path I'm taking).

 

A Commerce degree will not only give you the flexability to do the pre-reqs for Meds, but you'll also have the option of going into the business world. The economy is still starting up, and within a few years (as said by an investment manager who came to do a speech) the economy is going to crazy by then and you'll have these nutty sign on bonuses and 6-figure compensation packages in Investment Banking.

 

Down side to Commerce is that if you don't like it, you will not succeed in it and the competition is cut throat. For pre-meds here we have this forum so we can ask for help from each other and stuff and provide a supporting enviroment. In Commerce, everything is just the same, just the opposite way.

Not a very supportive enviroment where I am.

 

Anyway the decision is yours of course. If you'd like to go into the business world go for Commerce (you'll probably have to do 1st year Econ if you haven't already) but if you like the aspects of science, and I mean research in science, Pharmacology, and if you just want a back up plan that will pay you well and still in science, Pharmacy

 

Does that summarize things down nicely?

 

EMHC

[Guest ubcpharmer]

hI

 

Its true that marks may be a little harder to come i pharmacy however, with a little extra effort it is not impossible to garner an 80-85% average in addition to doing all the extracirricular stuff. I am in my last year of pharmacy and believe that it was excellent choice as an undergrad degree. Currently i am doing my hospital rotation and i end up teaching the 1st year residents alot about side effects, how drugs work etc.

 

As mentioned by kristeen, jobs are a plenty and the wages are very high, especially if you want to work in the rural areas. Currently I have a job lined for this summer and beyond if medicine doesn't work out

[Guest patrickox]

Hello all,

I just have a question for the Pharmacy people.... If you go into pharmacy with the intention of being a doctor, do you realize that you are in a way screwing the system and wasting a pharmacy education? A pharmacy education is meant to produce a pharmacist, not to back up some pre-med who lacks confidence. My friend is in pharmacy right now and shes having a blast but she tells me that about half of the pharmacy students are serious pre-medders. If all of those pre-medders from pharmacy got in, we wouldn't have enough pharmacists! I understand the back up plan is important and there are just so many perks, but when you were interviewed for pharmacy, you honestly didn't tell them you had medicine in mind... if you did, you wouldn't have gotten in. And from my other friend's experience with trying to do the pharmacy-med transition, you better have a reeeaalllly good answer as to why you are switching professions so quickly after garnering a BSc. Pharm (and because I want to help people is probably not a good answer). Now, listen, I really do feel for pharmacist who get a pharm degree, get liscenced, work in a hospital for a while and really feel that they can do more (ie. be a doctor). But if you just grab your pharm degree and proceed to med, you really haven't been true to all of the pharm profs who invested their time in teaching you what is a really honourable profession. You really haven't given pharmacy a chance. Now I understand that this simple game of ethics isn't going to convince a lot of pre-medders from going down the pharm pathway but if you look at this website, just like the webmaster says about our health care system, "What you give to one, you must take away from everyone else." And hoarding a pharmacy spot while fully knowing you want to be an MD (effectively taking away the hopes and dreams of someone else who really wants pharmacy) really does say something about yourself and what you truly believe.

 

PS - I wonder how many pharmacy students actually make it to med? I know UBC doesn't give them an advantage over anyone else.

PSS - The advice I got from a friend who is at Queens' med is do something you like and that will get you great marks. Anything. He got in with a general (science) degree.

[Guest Jazz]

Totally agree with the post above, why help create another shortage in a healthcare profession. Also, notice how people seem to gravitate towards pharmacy because of it pays well and there are jobs available, anyone pharm people here actually likes it?

[Guest ubcpharmer]

Hi

 

You raise some excellent points that I have heard an endless number of times. However I take offence to the following quote:

.......not to back up some pre-med who lacks confidence

 

I would contend that by going into pharmacy we are not assuming we lack confidence but rather going into something that is within the healthcare field, something that serves as an excellent background to medicine as well as an excellent back up plan. Today, I have many friends who decided to pursue degrees in general sciences with no intention of going into research or being a lab tech but ending up in med school. As it stands, they didn't get into med school, have no jobs and are resigning to the fact that they will have to go into teaching.

Intrestingly, half of my class was "pre-med" in first year and this year only 5-6 have actually applied. So the idea that all pharmacists run to med doesn't hold much water. Personally, I was asked at my pharmacy interview about career options and I honestly answered that I HAD THOUGHT about a career in med wasn't sure if it was right for me. I was still admitted and more then half the faculty, including the deans office is fully aware of my intentions to go to med and are very supportive of my goals and aspirations.

 

My answer to the question of why the switch is that I feel that pharmacy limits my ability to use my knowledge to the best of my abilities to help patients. Having worked for 4 years in a pharmacy, I have seen my future colleagues do nothing but check that prescriptions have been filled correctly and argue with patients about who pays for there meds. Being located mostly in retail outlets, the pharmacy environment is not condusive to patient care. These are just some of the reasons I would like to switch.

 

PS last year 5 pharmacy people got into UBC med

[Guest kooty]

Hey all,

 

I'd like to add to what UBC pharmer has to say. I myself am in pharmacy right now (so I bet we know eachother ... and I also take offence to some of the things that have been said about us.

 

People think that we are screwing over the pharmacy system by choosing medicine: I don't. First of all, everyone does something pre-med....how many of them can honestly say they wanted to be microbiologists, pharmacologists, chemists, etc...? It happens everywhere. The point is to choose something that you see yourself loving in the future regardless of what happens with med. If I don't get into med at least I can

still be a part of the health care profession and help others.......which is really what it is all about for me.

 

Second thing: Pharmacists who go into med don't just ditch pharmacy. UBC pharmacy is a fantastic faculty full of caring profs (who, btw are not all pharmacists). We become some of the most powerful advocates of pharmacists. In this new era of interdisciplinarity, having a background in pharmacy can be great in terms of developing relationships between doctors and pharmacists. And there are plenty of faculty members within pharmacy who fully support this idea. Being in pharmacy is something I am proud of and I certainly would not consider it just a back up plan.

 

Regarding the average of pharmacy students: Our program is a professional program which is definitely not all memorizing which what science students like so much. You can't memorize how to diagnose a patient and select products for them because you simply don't know what you're going to get on an exam. Pharmacy focuses a lot on problem solving and it's not always easy to get high marks. But with a lot of effort, it's doable.

 

For mattmed: I would really have to think about going into pharmacy if I were you. There has been a recent change in curriculum and the work load is quite diffuicult if you do not have more than one year of sciences behind you. In the first year alone, the students have to take microbiology, orgo, physiology, anatomy, and stats, on top of a few pharmacy courses.

 

So don't bash us. We love pharmacy just as much as our other classmates and we will be doing it a great service by promoting it to other physicians and patients in the future.

[Guest ubcpharmer]

well said kooty

 

ps what year are you in

[Guest EMHC]

Got a question for those in Pharmacy,

 

Honestly speaking, how pleased would one of your Pharmacy profs be when you ask them for a reference letter to go into Medicine?

 

I'm just curious.

[Guest kooty]

Hi EHMC....

Done it. Asked multiple ones and like I said above, we have many profs that support education after pharmacy...law school, dent, med...you name it.

[Guest csp0304]

Question for ubcpharmer:

What's the reason behind for such a big decrease in the number of students pursuing medical school in pharmacy? (half the class -> 5~6? as you said?)

 

Did they develop a strong passion for being a pharmacist over being a physician over four years?

[Guest MattMed]

Hi

I just wanted to say thx for the feed back. I also wanted to ask about what kind of GPA the Pharms had that got in med and how many again are in the pharm class.

 

THX again.

[Guest damonr]

What do you guys think of the intergrated science program for a student that will get into med in 3rd year.:hat

[Guest Ollie]

I'm not really sure what you mean by this question. I guess you just want to know if ISP is an advantage or disadvantage. This is my first time applying so I don't have any first hand knowledge, but from everyone I know who has been either accepted or rejected in the past, no one has ever said that they felt their undergrad degree helped or hindered them. What is much more important than what your major was is that you can explain why you chose this major, what you learned (meaning more what you learned about yourself than what you learned in a textbook), and how your current education has prepared you for medicine. Preparation for medicine doesn't even need to mean the material that you learned, but more how you learned it, how you approaced challenges and problems, etc.

 

my $0.02

[Guest canstowski]

Let just say if you have no intend or desire to do research as a career, please don't take physiology, pharmacology, bio-chem, etc. as your major. If those programs appeal to you, fine, but if you have no intend to do a Master or PhD to start your research career, those programs offer you nothing. I, myself, graduated from physiology. Yea, the program was neat and very interesting but half way thru, i've found out that i'm not geared toward research. Hence, after getting rejected by UBC Med, i have no back ups. I initially thought i can do a master or what not but i'm just not too keen on doing more research. Taking programs that interest you is one thing but taking programs that is practical and can land you a job as a back up is vital! 8o

[Guest ubcpharmer]

There are multiple reasons as to why the number of people wanting to go into med decreased over the 4 years of pharmacy. Some people just lost the drive and passion, others enjoyed the profession and what it had to offer while others saw the money and ran for it. I think it is like any other undergrad degree. I remeber in first year every second person wanted to be a doctor but in the end not all of them apply.