Guest physiology Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Hey, I was talking to a med student at Queens during the summer, and he said that the hours for an IM residency are terrible. I don't what "terrible" means in this case. Anyone care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 At Queen's, IM is a pretty front-loaded program, so first year residents work really hard. One of my classmates is a first year resident there, and he's pretty tired. He's learning a ton though, which makes it all worthwhile. The call schedule gets easier as you progress through the residency, like most other residencies. I can't speak for Queen's IM program, but at UBC, residents on their inpatient general Internal Medicine rotations work q4. When I was a med student, I kept the same hours as those residents, so here's a typical week, with q4 call thrown in. Mon: Show up at 7 am. Leave at 5 pm. (10 hour shift) Tues: Show up at 7 am. On call that entire night. Wed: Still on call from last night. Leave at 2 pm (31 hour shift). Thurs: Show up at 7 am. Leave at 5 pm. (10 hour shift) Friday: Show up at 7 am. Leave at 5 pm. (10 hour shift) Saturday. Show up at 8 am. On call that entire day and night. Sunday. Still on call from last night. Leave at 2 pm (30 hour shift). Monday: Show up at 7 am... (repeat cycle for 2 months). In this average 7 day week, you work a total of around 90 hours per week. This is probably a little on the high end of things (as you get more efficient, you get out earlier each day), but not really that atypical for a third year med student on Internal Medicine. To put things into perspective, in one on-call shift of 30+ hours, you are nearly putting in the same number of hours that a non-medical full-time job requires in a WEEK. You also didn't get a weekend off, so you start the next week all sleep-deprived. Most non-medical people, if they are tired during the week, may have the luxury of sleeping in on the weekends, but you don't. Often, you get 4 days off for the entire month (2 complete weekends), which means that you are often working 12 consecutive days without a day off. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strider2004 Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Typical Queen's Hours: 7:45 - sign-in rounds 8:30 - pre-round on patients 9:30-12:00 - round with attending 1-5 - teaching/scutwork(ie discharges, getting requisitions filled)/chekc up on sick patients 5pm - handover patients to resident on call If you are post-call, you leave the next day around 12, after rounding with your attending Call is typically 1 in 4, with it being tougher in 2nd year because you have more responsibility. It's lighter in 3rd year, doing only 5 or so nights a month. Queen's is nice for letting you do things. I did my first art line in emerg last week, and did a carpal tunnel release(with close guidance) just yesterday, not to mention plenty of first assists even in cardiac surgery(not in IM, in surgery). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Typical UWO Internal Medicine day: 8:00 - 9:00 am: Rounds (ie an informal talk on EKGs, DM, etc.) 9:00 - 12:00 pm: Round on your patients with your residents and consultant. This can take more or less time dependent on the # of patients in-house. 12:00pm - 1:00pm: Rounds with FREE lunch (another talk/lecture) 1:00pm - whenever you can get your stuff done: Get your stuff done - see your patients, order tests, do procedures, attend any teaching sessions that arise. I left most days on average around 6:00-6:30pm, but if there was something interesting or we were so busy I hadn't seen all my patients, I could be there as late as 8:30pm. Call was 1 in 6. Really not that bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mgupta Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 UWOMEDS2005: is this clerk or resident (PGY1 call)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest therealcrackers Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 It's clerk, mgupta. The residents have it a little tougher, but we'll know the specifics on that in a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 It is clerk call for CTU (In-patient Internal Medicine @ UWO). I don't really have a sense of resident call. . . sometimes the junior residents on CTU would cover be covering CTU, but sometimes they would be "cross-covering" CCU, cardiology or nephro. . . and sometimes off-service residents (ie neurosurgery one night) will cover CTU. So it's difficult for us clerks to get a sense for the resident call schedules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lorae Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Ok... call me naive.... but surely you get a day or 2 off during a 28 day rotation.... say for example you're doing 4 weeks IM as an elective rotation. It's not 100% every day is it?? 7 days a week all the time??:eek I'm expecting grueling hours. I'm expecting 30+ hour shifts. I'm expecting 7 day work weeks.... but I thought there would be an odd day off. Please tell me you get a day or 2 off every once in a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Hi there, Speaking of grueling hours and the like, I met with my boss last night and he mentioned that the Toronto General Surgery residency program just took a big hit. Apparently they take in ~11 PGY-1s per year. This year, 8 of the residents in the program quit--an attrition rate that is apparently unprecedented. Interestingly, all of them quit immediately after having served on the University Avenue circuit. Apparently the University Avenue staff surgeons quipped that it had nothing to do with them, that it was due to the poor quality of the residents. However, an alternate, prevalent explanation was that the hours and demands were a bit mad. :rolleyes Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest macdaddyeh Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 So, in response to Kirsteen's note about quitting, I would like to know what then will happen with those residents. Can they work elsewhere? Apply through CARMS again? Did they quit medicine altogether? Is this common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UWOMED2005 Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Don't worry Lorae, well, sort of. . . Technically, you are only working Monday through Friday, 8am until you're done (it's supposed to be 5pm but usually averages out until 6-6:30pm.) But I did end up working 4 of the 6 weekends because I was scheduled for Saturday call (which is in-house): 8 am Saturday until about 12 pm Saturday. This meant I couldn't go out Friday night, my Saturday was work, and Sunday was half work and half sleep. Not much of a break. But I did get time off (two weekends). And when you are post-call at UWO for internal medicine (but not surgery!!) you get off at 12pm the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carolyn Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Quitting - There is an internal match through UofT in 1st year - some programmes accept more spots - really it depends on the year... Last year our emerg programme grew by 4 extra (2 Gen Surg, 1 Thoracic Surg and 1 Obs/gyn). So far this year we haven't heard of anyone switching in.... I think it is pretty hard to do. Each person who switched seemed to have different reasons for it. Just finished 30+ hours of internal medicine team call (PGY1)... never saw my call room... I'm now Post-call pissy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kirsteen Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Hey there Carolyn, Well on the upside, at least you didn't miss the brilliant weather outside. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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