Need insight from any and all. . .

[freebird]

Hi, I came across this board while trying to get more insight in the whole premed experience. I used (and abused) the search function for a couple weeks now and now I'd like to get perspective from people who know more about the journey.

 

As a graduating high school student from the outside-looking-in, it just seems that things looks less. . . peachy. It seems like everyone and their mothers want to be a doctor and so you hear all the time--from teachers, parents, other students--how incredibly difficult it is to become a med student and how only the "cream of the cream" can get there. However, when I read some of the topics in this forum and their respective replies, the answers seem almost sugarcoated. Such as the "work hard and you'll do fine" type responses. It's so new to me after years of hearing how kids with mid to high-90s averages out of high school, who dedicated most of their free time to studying in university, couldn't make the cut, or even faltered in their first year (most of their stories originate out of the St. George Life Science program).

 

So I suppose I'm just asking you people for a little bit more insight. I'd just like to know, whether either of these two perspectives holds any credence and perhaps just some friendly advice for a very confused 18-year old.

[kylerh]

I totally disagree. It is determination and passion that will set you apart from those that want to become doctors as a result of money or prestige. People have gotten in with lower GPAs so the myth of high gpas only is incorrect. If you want to be a med student you need to have a solid reason. Study hard, volunteer and have fun. For more information on peoples stats go through the various universities forums and look for accepted/rejected/waitlisted. This will give you a good insight into what gpas, mcat scores have been accepted. People have gotten in with a 3.6 over those with a 4.0. It's just how you present yourself. Don't let others impact your decision to enter meds. Do it for yourself!!!

 

best of luck

 

kylerh:)

[Destiny Gundam]

I am from the West and my focus was on UBC since first year so I couldn't speak for the eastern med schools. My feeling about all this is that there is not a definite "formula" which can gurantee your acceptance. I used to think there is, because of all these darn rumours circulating around @ UBC since the first day I got there, things like:

 

- you gotta have a lot of travelling under your belt

- you better have volunteered in a 3rd world country (or countries)

- you need to have volunteered a lot in hospitals (not just giftshop... but more intense positions such as visiting palliative patients or the mentally ill)

- you need tons of research experiences, more publications the better

- you need to be a musician, or athlete (or be really good at something)

- be a very outdoor person (hiking/ camping...etc)

- on top of all that you better keep a decent average, ie. mid 80s (A- at UBC)

...etc

 

Back 2nd/ 3rd year I felt very intimidated... I had decent grades but I had almost no significant EC activities... I sort of went into panic mode and signed myself up for a lot of stuff (hopstial volunteering/ volunteer at labs, etc) but as I actually went through with all these activities I realized that a lot of them require the same qualities from me: patience, dedication, good communication skills... etc. I started to question the validity of these rumours: do I really have to be an all-star athelete or traveled all over the world to get in? The answer I found was NO. I figured that it's the underlying skills/ qualities that I pick up along the way that matter the most. From then on, I only signed up for things that I truly enjoy, such as ball hockey and talking to kids. I think THIS is why a lot of applicants with better profiles didn't make the cut... it's that they either did not really learn a lot from what they do to help them mature OR they fail to successfully present themselves to the Med schools and say, "Here's what I've done, what I enjoy, and here's what I've learned from my experiences, I think I can use these skills to help me in becoming a successful med student/ physician."

 

But that's just my approach. The more important thing to keep in mind is that everyone's journey to medicine is unique, and I personally think you can't say one applicant is more qualified than others (eg. like in your example ppl with 90s and tons of ECs) just because he's done more, or achieve more on paper. That kind of achievements and qualifications will get you an interview, but CANNOT GURANTEE your acceptance, the reason being that a lot of important qualities valued by med schools cannot be (or very difficult to be) assessed on paper... one being your communication skills! Let's try this analogy... you and your friend both volunteer at the same hospital for 50 and 500 hours respectively. Whose profile looks more impressive on paper? Probably your friend's. But if you have better communication skills, you'll ace the interview while your friend won't, and he'll get rejected. I think having your own unique view/ approach on the whole process and realizing what the inner qualities/ skills are required is more critical than padding your CV with "impressive" experiences. But ofcoz you can't just sit there and do nothing

 

That's just my 2 cents. It worked for me best of luck.

[daryn]

However, when I read some of the topics in this forum and their respective replies, the answers seem almost sugarcoated. Such as the "work hard and you'll do fine" type responses. It's so new to me after years of hearing how kids with mid to high-90s averages out of high school, who dedicated most of their free time to studying in university, couldn't make the cut, or even faltered in their first year (most of their stories originate out of the St. George Life Science program).

 

You read "work hard and you'll do fine" because that's really what should happen. And honestly, what more are you expecting? The better question is, no matter what you expect the answers to be, what else can you do to make yourself the better person you can be?

 

The reason the 90s kids (but honestly, that's high school) can't make the cut is probably they have been spending their free time studying.

 

And listen, U of T (St. George, if you need to distinguish that) isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.

[Gadzillar]

Yes, it's challenging to get in, and no, there is no magic formula that will guarantee anything. I really do believe though that if you want something and you're willing to make sacrifices for it, you can do it. I used to look at it this way: think of all those people who want to be astronauts or actors or incredibly wealthy businesspeople. Is there a "Faculty of Hollywood" anywhere that can guarantee you'll realize your dream of being an A-list actor on graduation? For any given medical school, ~100-125 people do realize their dream each year. It's not impossible, not by a long shot.

[paulchemguy]

I guess it's like me back when I was in high school. I had to choose between business and science (ultimately, medicine). (I already wanted to be a doctor back then) There were 2 paths in front of me: either I'll have an easier university life and go into business, or work my ass off to get into med.

 

but then i thought if i give up then, then tens year from now when my hairline starts receding, i'd probably ask why i didn't give med a shot.... so i decided to work my ass off in science to get high marks, blah blah blah...

 

point is, no one knows what'll happen in the future. you can only assure yourself that you'll work hard so things hopefully go accordingly to ur plan... i'm no med student; this is just what i thought back then...

[Gloria]

Here's the thing. The advice that I have read on this forum is true. I think you will hear again and again, 'follow your passions' and the reason for this is because it is true. Many of us have been through the process and gotten into med school, had our own journey there, seen others who have not made it, and now looking back we say, 'passions will set you apart.' I can understand how this could seem sugarcoated, it doesn't really give a lot of direction, but previous posts have talked about what that means.

 

As far as the high school issue, and what you are learning from other people, it is also true. It is very hard to get into medicine, from two fronts. On one hand it is hard to get into medicine simply because of the well-rounded person that you need to be. You need to have good grades, demonstrate that you do things other than study, and show that you have the qualities of a physician and know what you are getting into. The other reason it is so hard is because once you do become competitive you are completing against people who are amazing as you, and part of it, I think, can come down to luck. I have heard people say things like 'for everyone that is accepted 2 equally qualified people are not.' So yes, it is hard to get into medicine.

 

But the reason we give these simplistic answers is because that's all you CAN do. All you can do is to know who you are, follow what you love, work hard etc. Do this, and you will find out if you love medicine, you will be successful, and you will become a better person, but it won't necessarily get you into medicine. Medical schools accept people for who they are (or sometimes who they portray themselves as) and so we are just trying to tell you to be 'you.' (Trust me, it is good to be you. I would imagine that I would probably start to tear out my hair if I was on an admissions committee and everyone had done the same thing, had the same marks, and learned the same things.)

 

Now as far as these 90% students are concerned, I wouldn't go with high school as an indication of who is going into medicine. Yes, 90% students from high school may never get into medicine, but sometimes it is just because they get plowed over in university. I know people who were 90% students coming into Queen's, and I was an 80% student. But now looking back at those people, yes, some of them flourished and got into meds, but some of them dropped off. University is different than high school. What you think you are interested in when you start first year can be much different than what you end up doing when you graduate. Now that I have graduated university I would say that the people I expected to get into medicine based on their university skills are the people who got in, and not too many people got in that surprised me.

 

Yes, there are going to be people who you thought (based on high school) would do well, but they won't. Then there are the 70 or 80%ers who will become 90% student in university because they love what they are learning. 'It's a new ball game' as they say.

[CutieYellow]

Admission to medical school is a funny thing. Always seemed to me similar to a lottery - really depends on your luck. Depends on who your interviewer is, depends on the school you're applying on, depends on the other people applying at the same time as you. Thus it's really hard to say how or why some people get in vs others. However, the thing about 'working hard and it'll be fine' is probably the determination that you have. I mean, a person applying 6x has a much better chance to get in than someone applying once and then thinking the world is over when they aren't accepted. Also, med schools look for well rounded individuals - grades aren't the only thing that matter - although they are important and not to be dismissed. I guess that yes, passion is what drives someone, but luck plays a bit of a role in it too. But i'm a firm believer in making your own luck if none is available

[Smurfette]

Don't worry too much about the 99% students from your high school class. University is a whole different ball game. Unless you have significant weaknesses (eg. English is your second language, you have no background in physics, etc.), you're on almost the same playing field as the 99% students, provided you got into the undergrad program you want to go into. Focus on your own journey - on your own strengths and weaknesses and your own path to "self-discovery" - rather than on what other people are doing.

 

1. The 99% student does not necessarily have a better idea of whether why they want to do medicine. But if they want to do med they're going to have to figure it out. (Conversely, the 80% student might). This motivation will be more important than 99% in grade 12 chemistry.

 

2. University marks are not the same as high school marks. I think crammers do better in high school. I know of people who could pull of 95% with 2 hours of studying in high school. Those people usually started having trouble in university (unless they learned to change their ways). It tends to be people who are independent and self-directed that do well in uni. (Not entirely true - I've done well cramming for a couple uni courses. But generally true.)

[freebird]

Thank you all for the advice! I just arrived back from the States and couldn't get around to reading this thread until today, but all the advice has done wonders to ease any of my qualms. Don't get me wrong, I am completely dedicated and motivated and through a year of trying to find what I wanted to do, I don't think I'd want to do anything else. It's unfortunate that I found out too late that I love biology (majoring in science, with no high school bio background!). Again, thank you all.

[Kuantum]

What all of these people have said is important and true in their own respect. Personally this has worked for me.

 

I came to university with education and getting into medical school as my priority, so its important to keep that in the back of your mind. Getting good grades is tough, that's why you see people slip from high school to university, however, the problem does not solely rest with the difficulty and rigor of university courses, but how one makes the transition. There is no time to transition! You need to get down to business right away and realize you have to start making the grade from day 1. This is not to put pressure on you to neglect everything non-academic, but your school work should always be your priority.

 

After that comes other things. Since medicine is package, a telling GPA is impressive, but not enough. That's why you sometimes see (at least I have seen) people with 3.96GPA and 40S MCAT not getting acceptances...its because they have just studied through their undergraduate years, have not contributed to society in anyway, and lack sufficient communication skills.

 

So to get these experiences, you should get involved. It doesn't have to be with medicine, but you should consider it, but they should definitely be of interest to you or it will be a miserable time. Do what you want and love it - it makes finding time around your school work to do this stuff much easier.

 

Just remember, medicine is a package. As a 2007 applicant, I'm glad I've worked hard during my undergraduate years or I'd be relegated to me home-province for applications, but I'm also glad that I've done other stuff because university life hasn't sucked. Also, I now actually have stuff to talk about in my apps and describe what I learned from these experiences.

 

Medicine is a major goal for most people on this forum, and it should be more than a goal, it has to be a vision that can't be blinded - at the same time, it shouldn't consume you. Focus on school work, but focus on your community, and yourself as well - everything will work out in the end (this is probably where the sugar-coated stuff you were talking about comes in).