Bad verbal score but good everything else?

[Tessa123]

Guys.. I did really bad on VR.. like pathetically bad, but all my other sections meet the cutoff... and I believe I have an alright GPA and EC/V/Essay... I was wondering if uT will even read my application? I know that in the past they've accepted students with scores under their cut off of "9"...

 

I remember someone saying before that everything that you do gets converted to a score.. like if you got published.. you get a higher score.. and if you've done a master's or a 4th year.. your base score is higher than a 3rd year applicant, etc. Does anyone know if MCAT works this way too? That way hopefully my other areas of strength can compensate for this really bad VR mark. =(

 

-Bummed

[Kuantum]

I am in the same boat as you. I'd also like to know, I've essentially been eliminated from most schools I applied to, including my resident provincial school.

[Jixe]

Same here.

 

Below what score will they no longer consider you?

[bustylegs]

Hi all:

 

I'm sure by now everyone under the U of T folder knows that according to the UT website, MCAT scores are used as "flags".

 

From my personal experience, I can say that the 9 in VR is not strictly enforced; as I got an 8 and I got in last year.

 

In addition, if one were to go to the admisson stats website, one finds that someone got into UT last year with a 6 in VR.

 

http://www.facmed.utoronto.ca/English/Admissions-Statistics.html

 

You just never know. But good luck for all that applied and have positive thoughts!

[WabbaJ]

this may be bull, but i've heard that last year a couple of people were granted admission into UofT with 5 as a VR score. again, this is a hear-say kinda thing, and those people must have had absolutely stellar "everything else".

 

hopefully things will work out for everyone

 

UPDATE: oops, bustylegs, you cleared things up! way to go on getting in, by they way (musta been the sweetest thing ever)-- and i guess youcant trust everything you hear!

[Jixe]

this may be bull, but i've heard that last year a couple of people were granted admission into UofT with 5 as a VR score. again, this is a hear-say kinda thing, and those people must have had absolutely stellar "everything else".

 

hopefully things will work out for everyone

Definitely not true, as their site states the lowest VR score last year was a 6. What I'd like to know is whether that 6 was from an MSc or PhD applicant. Would they consider undergrads with a 6/7 in VR?

[Jixe]

Hi all:

 

I'm sure by now everyone under the U of T folder knows that according to the UT website, MCAT scores are used as "flags".

 

From my personal experience, I can say that the 9 in VR is not strictly enforced; as I got an 8 and I got in last year.

 

In addition, if one were to go to the admisson stats website, one finds that someone got into UT last year with a 6 in VR.

 

http://www.facmed.utoronto.ca/English/Admissions-Statistics.html

 

You just never know. But good luck for all that applied and have positive thoughts!

Bustylegs, do you know of any classmates who were admitted with either a 6 or 7 in VR, whom also did NOT have any graduate experience?

[blinknoodle]

I suppose it is an honest request, but bustylegs hasn't started meds yet! How's that PhD dissertation going, btw?

 

Heck even once you are in meds, how often do you think we compare GPA and MCATs?

 

Listen, if you've sent in your application, there is nothing to do but wait and see whether an interview invite arrives.. whether you have a VR 6 or a VR 13.

[EMD]

I was wondering if uT will even read my application? I know that in the past they've accepted students with scores under their cut off of "9"...

I dunno how your app looks otherwise... but I wouldn't hold your breath if your VR is less than 8. There is someone in my class that got in with a 6 in VR-- but they has 10s in the other sections, a PhD, a bunch of publications --one of which was on the cover of top biology/medicine journal.

 

Below what score will they no longer consider you?

The official rule is "slightly below" and in the past, as mentioned in my (in need of up-dating) FAQ, was 'one below the cut-off'. Now, we know that isn't really true (as bustylegs points-out). My hunch is the hard cut-off is 6-- but you have to make-up for it by being "...extremely competitive in all other aspects..." as the official FAQ puts it).

Would they consider undergrads with a 6/7 in VR?

I doubt it.

 

You probably don't want to hear this-- but you may have to start thinking about re-writing the MCAT. If you're curious about re-testers and scores-- the AAMC has some stats here -- here are the VR scores for retesters. Good Luck.

[silverjelly]

I am in the same boat as you. I'd also like to know, I've essentially been eliminated from most schools I applied to, including my resident provincial school.

 

Sorry to hear about that, Kuantum (and others). Hopefully you are still eligible for some of the other schools. I don't know where you applied, but for example, if you're a 4th year student with a high GPA, you've got a good shot at Ottawa. McMaster same thing since they also don't need the MCAT (but no 4th year bias that I know of). If your verbal score was above 6, then you've got a chance at MB. I think Toronto flags anything below a 9, but again, you've still got a chance. I'm not sure about AB or BC, but Queen's and Western I know for sure have high verbal cut-offs, so probably no luck there. Anyway, don't feel too bad, as things may still work out for you. Talk to AAMC and see if they will re-mark. Otherwise, hang in there and take the MCAT again.

[Tessa123]

thanks for the advice everyone

 

hey i have a pretty good WS score.. so maybe they'll think that i'm not totally illiterate and look at my application? i just want them to look at my application- i really am a strong applicant otherwise!!

 

i guess all i can do now is root for ottawa (but so far i've no friends that have gotten in, i dont really know what they look for) and Mac.

 

BIG SIGH.

 

Oh another question.. since my VR score is so low is there a point in releasing my score? (I already did because it was due yesterday, but I was just wondering if i would have been better off just not letting them see such a humiliation and embarassement)

[uofthopeful07]

thanks for the advice everyone

 

hey i have a pretty good WS score.. so maybe they'll think that i'm not totally illiterate and look at my application? i just want them to look at my application- i really am a strong applicant otherwise!!

 

i guess all i can do now is root for ottawa (but so far i've no friends that have gotten in, i dont really know what they look for) and Mac.

 

BIG SIGH.

 

Oh another question.. since my VR score is so low is there a point in releasing my score? (I already did because it was due yesterday, but I was just wondering if i would have been better off just not letting them see such a humiliation and embarassement)

 

you had no choice but to release for uoft...there is no way they would have reviewed your file completely without an mcat score. thats why its required at that school!

[Kuantum]

Sorry to hear about that, Kuantum (and others). Hopefully you are still eligible for some of the other schools. I don't know where you applied, but for example, if you're a 4th year student with a high GPA, you've got a good shot at Ottawa. McMaster same thing since they also don't need the MCAT (but no 4th year bias that I know of). If your verbal score was above 6, then you've got a chance at MB. I think Toronto flags anything below a 9, but again, you've still got a chance. I'm not sure about AB or BC, but Queen's and Western I know for sure have high verbal cut-offs, so probably no luck there. Anyway, don't feel too bad, as things may still work out for you. Talk to AAMC and see if they will re-mark. Otherwise, hang in there and take the MCAT again.

 

Thanks. My eggs are all in UofT and Ottawa essentially. I am sending my remarking request to the MCAT people today. I am glad there is a way for them to remark it. My MCAT scores were 13PS 12BS 6VR WS S --> 31S so I am getting worried. I never did that poorly on VR and people I talked to that I was helping improve their verbal reasoning score did better than me, they got 7s and 8s. This is why this is such a shocker to me, i am really starting to think I either mis-bubbled or MCAT screwed up because I even if I were just guessing and knew some answers, I would have ended up with a six, and I wasn't randomly guessing. Mind you I didn't know everything, but I understood every passage and only had trouble with one philosophy passage. But one 5-question passage would not tank my score like that. I am just so upset that something like this could have happened. The rest of my application is good so I am hoping Ottawa will take kind to a lowly 3rd year OOP such as myself and UofT may be able to see past that 6 (if it stays) and grant me an interview. Its hard to explain such a score because I don't even have an explanation for myself. I feel like if I were to write the MCAT again, there is a good chance I'd probably get 10 or 11 on VR...things just aren't making sense. I'm out at Manitoba, probably Alberta, definitely Calgary b/c I won't make that cut-off and even if I get an interview at UBC, they likely will not accept me - 7s get you a flag.

[Jixe]

I'm out at Manitoba, probably Alberta, definitely Calgary b/c I won't make that cut-off and even if I get an interview at UBC, they likely will not accept me - 7s get you a flag.

 

Kuantum,

 

This isn't the UBC forum, but although 7s get you a flag, there have been matriculants who've been accepted with one. That being said, I think anything below an 8 gets you a flag, but doesn't automatically translate into a rejection. Good luck with the re-mark.

[bustylegs]

I suppose it is an honest request, but bustylegs hasn't started meds yet! How's that PhD dissertation going, btw?

 

Heck even once you are in meds, how often do you think we compare GPA and MCATs?

 

Listen, if you've sent in your application, there is nothing to do but wait and see whether an interview invite arrives.. whether you have a VR 6 or a VR 13.

 

Hi Blinknoodle and everyone else:

 

Blinknoodle is correct in that I have not started meds yet. I was granted a deferral so I can finish my PhD. Things are going well and I'll be very productive by the time I finish next year. I'll be in class with many of you next year!

 

And I totally agree with Blinknoodle in that there's nothing else we can do other than wait for invitation for interview.

 

I apologize that I do not have anything insightful to share with all of you other than work hard (which many of you have obviously been doing) and hope for the best. I'd be more than willing to share my thoughts on my UT interview experience when the time comes.

 

Best of luck!

 

p.s. Kuantum, your VR score is killing you. Let's just hope that your UT essay has convinced UT that they just HAVE to meet you! I have a good feeling about you, keep thinking positive.

[butterflies85]

Kuantum,

 

If you were scoring 10's and 11's on the practice tests, a 6 on the real test is very odd!! I'm sure it's not reflective of your abilities..as you said, they either marked it wrong (let's hope this is the reason!!!) or you misbubbled

 

If you do retake the MCAT, feel confident and happy knowing that you probably won't need to study too much if you take it in January.

 

And as others said, you have a pretty good chance at Ottawa and Mac if everything else is good and you're in 4th year (for Ottawa).

 

Good luck!

 

Oh and good luck to Tessa..don't worry, your chances are high at Ottawa and Mac and maybe TO who knows!?

[Kuantum]

Kuantum,

 

If you were scoring 10's and 11's on the practice tests, a 6 on the real test is very odd!! I'm sure it's not reflective of your abilities..as you said, they either marked it wrong (let's hope this is the reason!!!) or you misbubbled

 

If you do retake the MCAT, feel confident and happy knowing that you probably won't need to study too much if you take it in January.

 

And as others said, you have a pretty good chance at Ottawa and Mac if everything else is good and you're in 4th year (for Ottawa).

 

Good luck!

 

Oh and good luck to Tessa..don't worry, your chances are high at Ottawa and Mac and maybe TO who knows!?

 

I think everything else is good.

 

GPA 3.93

EC are probably better than average...I don't know how my detailed sketch will be evaluated though. I don't know if there is a special secret like there is at UBC.

Unfortunately, I am a 3rd year OOP who is not bilingual but is eager to learn. I hope they can see past the fact that I am a 3rd year appliocant.

[butterflies85]

I think everything else is good.

 

GPA 3.93

EC are probably better than average...I don't know how my detailed sketch will be evaluated though. I don't know if there is a special secret like there is at UBC.

Unfortunately, I am a 3rd year OOP who is not bilingual but is eager to learn. I hope they can see past the fact that I am a 3rd year appliocant.

 

You never know! Sometimes it seems like it's all about luck. I was a 3rd year applicant last year with GPA 3.97, quite a few ECs..but alas, no interview at Ottawa (and I am from Ottawa!). That being said, I know many people who got interviews with similar AND different stats.

 

Good luck

[Blahmanblah]

Why do people get so low on verbal?

 

Do they just choke?

[Lady]

Well, I think that those who find the verbal section really hard (like myself) are people who aren't avid readers. My parents never put much emphasis on reading for pleasure when I was a kid, and I was much more into sports as a pastime. As a result, I'm a pretty slow reader now days and I'm also not used to analyzing texts I read. When I first started studying for the VR section of the MCAT, I handed a passage to my two roommates (who are English and History majors) and they schooled me. However, even for those who read frequently, I think that the MCAT VR section can still be challenging because there is a time restraint. Pressure, pressure, pressure! Blahmanblah, I take it you did well on VR...

[Blahmanblah]

Ignore my question. :-) I didn't realize it came out that way.

[Kuantum]

Why do people get so low on verbal?

 

Do they just choke?

 

I know of people who consistently score extremely low on verbal. Its not because they choke or they aren't intelligent, its because MCAT verbal is very different from text and prose seen in everyday encounters. It is very academic, and even so, there is not as much explanation of complex ideas as seen in academic texts. It claims to test critical reasoning and analysis, but I'm sure this can be argued. I've never been a big fan of the MCAT even before and after I wrote the MCAT(13PS 6VR 12BS WS S). As you can see it appears that I bombed the VR, however, I was doing quite well before. Whether I mis-bubbled or in fact did bomb it is something I may know in a month. Its difficult to pin-point the reason why some people just aren't good at verbal.

 

Example, I know a girl at my university who was reject from medical school for getting a 6 in VR. She went on to become a Rhodes Scholars and was accepted at McGill University as an OOP student. The university must have been pretty embarassed after turning away someone like that, but some people just aren't good at it. I don't consider it a test of your abilities, same with PS, BS, and the writing sample. The entire test is just away of easily assigning rank to people at immediate glance instead of weighing each persons history...it would take too long and claims are its too subjective. However, every now and then, it inadvertantly filters out those who should not have been.

[EMD]

I know of people who consistently score extremely low on verbal. Its not because they choke or they aren't intelligent, its because MCAT verbal is very different from text and prose seen in everyday encounters. It is very academic, and even so, there is not as much explanation of complex ideas as seen in academic texts. It claims to test critical reasoning and analysis, but I'm sure this can be argued. I've never been a big fan of the MCAT even before and after I wrote the MCAT(13PS 6VR 12BS WS S). As you can see it appears that I bombed the VR, however, I was doing quite well before. Whether I mis-bubbled or in fact did bomb it is something I may know in a month. Its difficult to pin-point the reason why some people just aren't good at verbal.

 

Example, I know a girl at my university who was reject from medical school for getting a 6 in VR. She went on to become a Rhodes Scholars and was accepted at McGill University as an OOP student. The university must have been pretty embarassed after turning away someone like that, but some people just aren't good at it. I don't consider it a test of your abilities, same with PS, BS, and the writing sample. The entire test is just away of easily assigning rank to people at immediate glance instead of weighing each persons history...it would take too long and claims are its too subjective. However, every now and then, it inadvertantly filters out those who should not have been.

VR is actually the most useful-- in terms of being a predictor according to the research. I remember reading this in a couple of different places and I also remember reading that McMaster at one point was considering that people do the VR section of the MCAT only-- so they can use that for admissions. There is no doubt that VR measures something-- the other standardized tests (e.g. GMAT, LSAT) also have VR sections.

 

Any case, my $0.02 on it is that doing well on VR is two things:

• reading quickly and absorbing lots of information in a short time

• critical reasoning -- connecting a to b, i.e. "connecting the dots"

Both of the above points I think are important for medical school... and the first is probably more important than the second 'cause med school is memorizing large volumes of material. People who do poorly on VR fail mostly on the speed... but also have difficulty with the "connecting the dots".

[Kuantum]

VR is actually the most useful-- in terms of being a predictor according to the research. I remember reading this in a couple of different places and I also remember reading that McMaster at one point was considering that people do the VR section of the MCAT only-- so they can use that for admissions. There is no doubt that VR measures something-- the other standardized tests (e.g. GMAT, LSAT) also have VR sections.

 

Any case, my $0.02 on it is that doing well on VR is two things:

• reading quickly and absorbing lots of information in a short time

• critical reasoning -- connecting a to b, i.e. "connecting the dots"

Both of the above points I think are important for medical school... and the first is probably more important than the second 'cause med school is memorizing large volumes of material. People who do poorly on VR fail mostly on the speed... but also have difficulty with the "connecting the dots".

 

Can you send me a link to that research because I don't think that's true.

[Dayne67]

I think that verbal is something that can be improved to a certain degree. When I first took the MCAT, my verbal score was a 7. At the time, I wasn't too suprised by the result because it felt like I was frequently choosing between two or three possible answers on the day of the test. In other words, I was guessing a lot of the answers. And I put a reasonable amount of time studying using Kraplan's junky techniques. They didn't work for me at all. But I did know that my reading technique was fundamentally flawed and needed to be totally overhauled. I glossed way too much. I would lose focus. I was a slow reader. And I always had to come back and re-read large chunks of the passages to understand the key specifics of the passage.

 

The next year, I rewrote the MCAT. My verbal score improved to a 10. It's not a spectacular score, but it's solid IMO. Improving that score took more than 4 months of reading journals, magazines, newspapers, and of course all sorts of VR practice material . It wasn't just the quantity of reading that was important, but I was also mindful of the technique that I was using. At the end, I could handle dense texts and stay focused throughout the passages. But it took a lot of practice!

 

Verbal is something that can take a long time to improve IMO, but it is doable.