American Medical Schools

[patch]

According to some previous threads, going to med school in the states is a lot more expensive. I have also read that it is much easier for an American to get into an American school compared to a Canadian getting into a Canadian school. I am wondering how much harder it is for a Canadian to get into an American school compared to an American (in general)? Is it still easier for a Canadian to get into an American school than a Canadian school? I feel that my options in Canada are a bit restricted with only a handful of schools, whereas in the states there are so many schools that a half decent CV will almost certainly get you in somewhere within one application cycle if you apply to enough schools. I see people on SDN who apply to 20-30 schools in the states…those odds certainly beat my odds if I apply to 5 or 6 Canadian schools. I know I certainly want to stay in Canada but I was just thinking about my options. Any thoughts?

[EMD]

I think this thread should really be in the American School forum. Nevertheless, here is my take on it...

 

I am wondering how much harder it is for a Canadian to get into an American school compared to an American (in general)?

I think it is harder. You have to convince 'em you want to go the US. In terms of getting an interview... it goes very much by the numbers (specifically the MCAT)--you have to make the cuts. A school like U of Vermont has on the order of 5,500 applicants... this tops the number of apps to any Ontario school. As a Canadian you can only apply to certain schools and are considered "out-of-state" to the schools you apply to.

 

Is it still easier for a Canadian to get into an American school than a Canadian school?

Yup. Look at the numbers... in the US there are approximately 35K applicants for 15K spots.(AAMC stats)(Standford Premed page) Here the numbers across the country are something like 1/4 (if I remember correctly). In Ontario the odds are about 1/7 ((800/5577)^-1=6.97).

 

I see people on SDN who apply to 20-30 schools in the states…those odds certainly beat my odds if I apply to 5 or 6 Canadian schools.

It isn't the number of schools so much as the number of applicants and the number of spots. In Canada there are more applicants per spot.

 

I know I certainly want to stay in Canada but I was just thinking about my options. Any thoughts?

I'd stay in Canada if you can... it is cheaper and I think health care is friendlier.

[Madz25]

At 'state' schools you will be considered an out-of-state student. At private schools everyone is the same (ie. no out-of-state or in-state). That being said, many state schools have more out-of-state students than in-state so it's not that difficult to get accepted to state school either even if you are considered an out-of-state student. I think it'll be easier to get into an American school than a Canadian one because of what EMD/UTMed07 said: #applicants vs. # spots.

[TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

Don't forget that unlike Canada, the medical education that you get in the U.S. is tiered, meaning that there are "good" medical schools and there are "bad" medical schools. The reputation of the school that you attend in the U.S. can definitely affect how competitive you are when it comes to residency. In addition, you also get into things like class ranking and stuff, which also carries much more weight in the U.S. system than it does in Canada.

That said, I'm not sure how significant the reputation of the U.S. school you attended is in terms of a selection criteria when it comes to Canadian residency programs. I doubt that the Canadian residency programs consider this at all when scoring candidates, but you never know.

Canadian medical schools, on the other hand, are all regarded equally for the purposes of matching and it really doesn't matter which medical school you attend in Canada because they are all good. Candidates from every medical school in Canada are able to match to competitive residency positions regardless of where they went. Of course, you can get into the personal biases of the individual program directors, but that's not really something that's unique to Canada- you'd get that anywhere and I'm sure that it'd be a lot worse in the States than it is here.

Oh, and the worst part of all is that you'd actually have to LIVE in the U.S. and who would that?

Canada rules, eh!

[DoNair]

I am a Canadian in my first year of medical school in the US.

 

Here are the facts:

 

1. US med schools are more expensive than Canadian schools. There are some exceptions. Memorial U charges $30,000 CDN/year for non-maritime students. Some US schools are around $25,000 US/year. Depending on the exchange rate, that could be cheaper. However, in most cases the cost of education in the US is more than in Canada. Also living in the US can be cheaper than living in Canada. Here in St. Louis, everything is DIRT CHEAP. Groceries, rent, gas, EVERYTHING!

 

2. It is easier for an American to get in to an American med school than for a Canadian (assuming all other selection factors are equal.) Why? Because some schools don't accept Canadians (they can't issue student visas) so Americans have more choices. They can also apply to state schools (and have a decent shot) whereas Canadians generally don't have a great shot because of residency. That doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

 

3. It is easier for a Canadian to get accepted to an American medical school than a Canadian school. Why? There are 125 US med schools, and 16 (english) schools in Canada. Do the math.

 

4. It is harder for a Canadian to live in the US than in Canada. You need a social security number for everything and it is tough to get by without one. You need a student visa which places a bunch of restrictions on what you can do. (You need to keep the school and government informed on everything you do: moving, visiting another country, etc.) Living in the US isn't that bad. The people are friendly, the weather is not bad, and the education is good. However, if you have grown up in Canada, it'll be really weird not being in Canada. I have found that I have become much more patriotic once I came here.

 

5. You don't get great financial aid b/c you are not American and b/c you not studying in Canada.

 

6. Getting a residency can be a hassle, but you can do it. (You need to write the US board exam to graduate from school and apply for residency in the US. If you want to apply for residency in Canada you have to write the Canadian board exam as well. It's a bunch of extra steps but if you really want to do medicine, then you'll get by.

 

Stay in Canada if you can. If you can't get in to a Canadian school, then the US is a GREAT option. Sure it's a lot more hassle, but what else are you going to do? Go to some shady Carribean school?

 

Btw, next time post in the American med school forum.

[patch]

Thanks for the info. Those are all points to consider. One thing I was wondering, if you were to stay in the US after attending school there, assuming you get into a good residency, would you not have a higher earning potential which would somewhat offset the huge debt one would have after attending school there as a Canadian (in the long run), or is this not true?

 

…and sorry I will post in the American forum next time (I didn’t know there was an American forum )

[EMD]

Thanks for the info. Those are all points to consider. One thing I was wondering, if you were to stay in the US after attending school there, assuming you get into a good residency, would you not have a higher earning potential which would somewhat offset the huge debt one would have after attending school there as a Canadian (in the long run), or is this not true?

 

…and sorry I will post in the American forum next time (I didn’t know there was an American forum )

I wrote a little FAQ (http://p090.ezboard.com/fpremed101frm22.showMessage?topicID=204.topic --old bulletin board) a while back about medical school elsewhere. It is a bit dated... but probably is still of some use. Caribbean schools are explored on this site... as mentioned in the FAQ. Personally, they aren't my thing-- but it is worth a glance in my opinion-- the open letter in particular... even though I don't think it quite correct.

 

The American forum is here (Applying to American Schools)-- it is about 3/4 down from the top on the main page.

 

Historically, it has been challenging to come back from the US. Yes, the debt is huge ($150-200K US). Also, it has been difficult to get a residency spot in Canada as a US graduate-- mind you things are changing as we speak... this year Manitoba will be wide open (Canadian medical graduates competing directly against people from other LCME schools (US med schools) and international medical graduates (people who went to med school outside of Canada and the US)).

[DoNair]

Graduates of US med schools (LCME accredited schools) can apply in the first round of CaRMS. In fact the moderator of the American forum did that.

 

Moo got his/her MD from Northwestern and then matched at U of Alberta for family med. (I wouldn't mind doing that. Edmonton is my hometown!)

 

You can get a residency in the US and in a good school, but the non-resident thing can be a obstacle. The school/hospital where you go will need to sponsor you for a visa (hopefully the H1B not J1 visa) so that you can work there. If you get a J1 you can do the residency but are required to return to Canada after finishing the residency for a minimum of 2 years. Since your US residency won't be recognized in Canada you will essentially waste 2 years of your life. The H1B doesn't make you return to Canada, and you can continue working in the US and eventually get a green card. Getting the H1B visa is much more difficult, which is why some people return to Canada for residency.

 

Things are changing now where IMG's (ie: from Carribean) can enter into the first round of CaRMS now but they need to write the MCCQE Part 1 (Canadian board exam), I think. I'm not completely sure on this. US grads need to write this as well, although the USMLE (US board exam) is considered acceptable in Ontario. Again I am not completely sure on this. Moo is the expert on this subject since he/she just went through all this. Post in the American forum and moo should be able to answer your questions.