class of 2010 demographics

[blinknoodle]

For those interested,

 

http://www.schulich.uwo.ca/administration/Deans-newsletters/Deans_Report_2006.pdf

page 32 for class of 2010 demographics.

[Kiel]

Thanks so much for posting that. It's really appreciated:)

[md3]

Why is that schools, as far as I have researched, do not provide a breakdown of the different races in their demographics?

[bioboy2007]

Why is that schools, as far as I have researched, do not provide a breakdown of the different races in their demographics?

 

Why do this? There are no affirmative action policies based on race for admissions decisions in Canada (except for some priority to Aboriginal applicants).

[hnshhhm]

I guess the a few of the more interesting things I found in the document was that from the entering class of 2006:

 

56 of the 79 interviewed from South Western Ontario got in (EDIT: actually, 64 of the 79 were offerered admission, wow!) - very nice odds, I must say.

 

The number of applicants in 2006 actually DECREASED 10% from 2005. To my knowledge, I think UWO was the only school to experience this downward trend. Not sure what to think of this, considering that the double cohort has mostly been attributed in the sudden increase of applicants last year, and since UWO's cutoff requirements essentially remained the same.

 

Thanks for sharing this with us.

[md3]

Why do this? There are no affirmative action policies based on race for admissions decisions in Canada (except for some priority to Aboriginal applicants).

 

Out of curiosity, I would like to see the breakdown of the different ethnic groups that make up our multicultural country in a medical school class. Merit over anything is what I am for, but at the same time can the ethnic diversity seen on, say, the Toronto subway, also be seen in medical school class. No harm in publishing such figures. And would be interesting from an immigration point of view as well.

[kaymcee]

The number of applicants in 2006 actually DECREASED 10% from 2005. To my knowledge, I think UWO was the only school to experience this downward trend. Not sure what to think of this, considering that the double cohort has mostly been attributed in the sudden increase of applicants last year, and since UWO's cutoff requirements essentially remained the same.

 

(Totally bunk and inconsistent) honours degree requirement, maybe?

[blinknoodle]

Out of curiosity, I would like to see the breakdown of the different ethnic groups that make up our multicultural country in a medical school class. Merit over anything is what I am for, but at the same time can the ethnic diversity seen on, say, the Toronto subway, also be seen in medical school class. No harm in publishing such figures. And would be interesting from an immigration point of view as well.

 

I don't remember disclosing my race on my medical school application (only when I wrote the MCAT) so I don't know how they would determine those demographics to make them public. There have been publications about the racial mix of applicants in Canadian medical schools if you are all interested about Canada on a bigger scale.

[blinknoodle]

I guess the a few of the more interesting things I found in the document was that from the entering class of 2006:

 

56 of the 79 interviewed from South Western Ontario got in (EDIT: actually, 64 of the 79 were offerered admission, wow!) - very nice odds, I must say.

 

The number of applicants in 2006 actually DECREASED 10% from 2005. To my knowledge, I think UWO was the only school to experience this downward trend. Not sure what to think of this, considering that the double cohort has mostly been attributed in the sudden increase of applicants last year, and since UWO's cutoff requirements essentially remained the same.

 

Thanks for sharing this with us.

 

My guess is that the initial jump in applications was when UWO eluded the cut-offs were no longer firm. They stated other criteria may be used to offer interviews but didn't state which criteria, so many more underqualified applicants applied. Now we know that SWOMEN applicants have separate cut-offs, but the cut-offs are still firm, so less people have applied.

 

I believe this current application cycle is the first year where the course pre-reqs have been waived in lieu of an honours degree.

[Gob]

Out of curiosity, I would like to see the breakdown of the different ethnic groups that make up our multicultural country in a medical school class. Merit over anything is what I am for, but at the same time can the ethnic diversity seen on, say, the Toronto subway, also be seen in medical school class. No harm in publishing such figures. And would be interesting from an immigration point of view as well.

 

I can tell you that our class is fairly racially diverse.

[md3]

Thanks for your replies.

[lostintime]

It sure would be nice to come from London.

[UoC-CCFP-07]

Racial diversity was never a problem at UWO.

 

Economic diversity was a huge problem. It's too bad demographics aren't included in that report that reflect that fact - though I also think admin would prefer not to advertise that fact.

 

A survey of my class (2005) showed the average family income for a UWO med student to be well in excess of $100,000 (~$130,000 I believe.)

 

Personally, I found sometimes reflected in comments and opinions voiced by classmates - both in regards to fellow classmates and patients. I found there was often a naiivety about how life is for the average joe Canadian trying to make ends meet.

 

As well, being a resident and being able to compare my situation to other residents in my program, I honestly haven't found any with quite as much debt as I accrued while at UWO. The report may suggest UWO's tuition now isn't out of line with other Ontario med schools, but it's still a) a heck of a lot higher than many other Canadian provinces a school where not owning and maintaing a vehicle is 100% impossible for years 3 and 4, and improbable for years 1 and 2 and c) a 4 yr program as opposed to MacMaster (with which the report compares UWO.)\

[The Soccer Guy]

Thanks for posting this !

 

I never knew that Ottawa, DeGroote, and N. Ontario do not consider MTCA scores for admission (bottom left of page 31).

[Kuantum]

Racial diversity was never a problem at UWO.

 

Economic diversity was a huge problem. It's too bad demographics aren't included in that report that reflect that fact - though I also think admin would prefer not to advertise that fact.

 

A survey of my class (2005) showed the average family income for a UWO med student to be well in excess of $100,000 (~$130,000 I believe.)

 

Personally, I found sometimes reflected in comments and opinions voiced by classmates - both in regards to fellow classmates and patients. I found there was often a naiivety about how life is for the average joe Canadian trying to make ends meet.

 

As well, being a resident and being able to compare my situation to other residents in my program, I honestly haven't found any with quite as much debt as I accrued while at UWO. The report may suggest UWO's tuition now isn't out of line with other Ontario med schools, but it's still a) a heck of a lot higher than many other Canadian provinces a school where not owning and maintaing a vehicle is 100% impossible for years 3 and 4, and improbable for years 1 and 2 and c) a 4 yr program as opposed to MacMaster (with which the report compares UWO.)\

 

That's a really high average salary. Is Western actually going to do anything about the economic diversity thing because I really couldn't see how they could address that. Aside from requesting family tax information or average salary pre-admission, I don't know how they could use that information to make sound medical admission decisions. I certainly do not come from a wealthy family, but for this, I think its one of those things were critics of special admission criteria may claim that we are moving towards trying to represent the patient population to an extent that the best applicants aren't being admitted. I strongly believe that in a medical community that reflects the diversity of the country and patient base, however, I believe that providing patient care by the best qualified individuals is just as important. Thus, providing extensive assitance opportunities is probably one way of ensuring those that come from less-affluent families are not at an unequal disadvantage upon graduation. Thoughts?

[TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

Yeah, I can definitely agree with UoC's comments there about the UWO medical class composition definitely over-representing society's upper crust (as I'm sure that it does at other schools, not just at UWO), which often led to disconnection with reality and a general inability (or refusal) to understand certain everyday problems common people (like me) face day in and day out.

I'd also agree with Kuantum's assertion that medical school composition should reflect the general population demographics, however, the system the way it is definitely favours the well-to-do, who don't have to worry about stuff like working during school and can afford the extra tutoring, MCAT prep courses, ECs, trips to Africa for no reason that can significantly impact the success of a medical school application.

Sadly, until a better system of comparing and evaluating candidates comes along, I'm afraid that the current system will continue to favour the well-off.

That's my two cents on the issue.

[Kuantum]

Hey,

 

Yeah, I can definitely agree with UoC's comments there about the UWO medical class composition definitely over-representing society's upper crust (as I'm sure that it does at other schools, not just at UWO), which often led to disconnection with reality and a general inability (or refusal) to understand certain everyday problems common people (like me) face day in and day out.

I'd also agree with Kuantum's assertion that medical school composition should reflect the general population demographics, however, the system the way it is definitely favours the well-to-do, who don't have to worry about stuff like working during school and can afford the extra tutoring, MCAT prep courses, ECs, trips to Africa for no reason that can significantly impact the success of a medical school application.

Sadly, until a better system of comparing and evaluating candidates comes along, I'm afraid that the current system will continue to favour the well-off.

That's my two cents on the issue.

 

You make it sound like everyone who does that is in it just for something to put on their med. application. Have you ever been?

[TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

Nope, I've always done things because I've found them interesting and never had that ulterior motive of doing something because I thought that it would look good on a medical school application. I also didn't decide that I was going to go for medicine until midway through my 3rd year of undergrad. Thanks for asking!

[Kuantum]

I completely agree with you, but I further think you should recognize that others that travel overseas don't always have ulterior motives. I can acknowledge that some certainly do, but not all.

[TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

You make it sound like everyone who does that is in it just for something to put on their med. application.

That said, I do find it frustrating that some medical schools tend to reward things like experiences or living abroad in considering and comparing applications. Does it make someone more "worldly" that they have visited another country or lived in another country for a length of time than someone who has not? Sure, maybe it does. Does it make someone a better candidate for medicine than someone who has not visited/lived abroad? Absolutely not.

I hate it that basically someone who has had the means to be able to live abroad and not necessarily be doing anything while they're away other than visiting is by this rationale therefore better suited for medicine than someone who has had to work summers during undergrad to support themselves in the eyes of some admissions committees. Just my two cents on the issue.

[Kuantum]

Hey,

 

 

That said, I do find it frustrating that some medical schools tend to reward things like experiences or living abroad in considering and comparing applications. Does it make someone more "worldly" that they have visited another country or lived in another country for a length of time than someone who has not? Sure, maybe it does. Does it make someone a better candidate for medicine than someone who has not visited/lived abroad? Absolutely not.

I hate it that basically someone who has had the means to be able to live abroad and not necessarily be doing anything while they're away other than visiting is by this rationale therefore better suited for medicine than someone who has had to work summers during undergrad to support themselves in the eyes of some admissions committees. Just my two cents on the issue.

 

I don't completely agree with you. I do agree that those who just spend time overseas travelling with the family's have an advantage may not be necessarily fair, however, the world is becoming more interconnected and its important to recognize that those with broader cultural experiences may likely have an easier time responding to patients from other parts of the world.

I am certainly not on any medical admissions committees (still a hopeful) but from the majority of matriculants I've come into contact with , I think it is a reasonable statement that medical admissions try to seek out varied experiences. From the economic disparities at UWO and likely at other schools, it might be an indication that they need to do a better job. However, to completely reject the idea that someone with more cultural experience is not any better suited than someone who has never been on a plane may be an exaggeration.

[The Soccer Guy]

Are we only talking about traveling during your undergraduate years/after your undergraduate years before you apply to med schools (depending on what the scenario is) or is this also related to people who were immigrants at some point.

 

For an example, I have a friend who lived in 2 countries before coming to Canada ... would this fall under that category?

[TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

For an example, I have a friend who lived in 2 countries before coming to Canada ... would this fall under that category?

No, that's not what I had in mind. That is a lot different than the situation I was outlining, which was to voice my dissention with an admission scoring system that rewards travel abroad.

See, I don't believe that someone should be considered more qualified for medicine for the simple fact that they have been on a plane and simply been to another country than someone who hasn't. I'm talking about the situation where all other things are equal between two applicants here, by the way.

I don't think that the simple act of visiting another country for the sake of visiting it makes one more "worldly" and I can't see how an argument such as the world becoming more interconnected serves as justification for favoring applicants with said experiences. It would be different, I would be the first to agree, if the person was going abroad for some purpose, such as to volunteer for some case or to teach English as practical examples, but I don't think that a visit to some other country strictly for pleasure and no other reason should warrant additional favour in the final decision. I frankly don't see how that makes someone more qualified for medicine than someone else who can't otherwise afford such a luxury or is too busy holding down a job back home for such things.

Anyway, that's my beef with some admissions scoring systems that exist in Canada. Fortunately, the one that I had direct influence over (UWO) does not formally consider nor reward such trivialities in making their final admissions decision. I am proud to see that the number of successful SWOMEN applicants over the past two cycles and hope that this trend continues in the future!

[The Law]

I don't think that the simple act of visiting another country for the sake of visiting it makes one more "worldly" and I can't see how an argument such as the world becoming more interconnected serves as justification for favoring applicants with said experiences.

 

Yeah I agree Timmy. I can't ever go on vacation for a long time because my dad has a store and I always have to work during the summer. I've been on exactly one long term vacation, but I do not feel that this fact makes me less interconnected with the world. I have plenty of experiences working with people from different cultural/social backgrounds, and I too do not understand why extra points would be given to an applicant who is able to travel. Simply going to another coutnry does not make you any more knowledgable on the culture of that country... or any more "worldly." I come from a family that immigrated to Canada when I was around 4 years old and it took us a long time to settle down here. I haven't really had an opportunity to visit other countries, except for the occasional visit to the US for weddings and stuff. I think rather than just seeing "oh this person went to Africa for 3 months," the focus should be more on looking to see that the applicant has consistently demonstrated that they are able to work with and understand the complexity of the social structure around them

[degoo_]

Yeah I agree Timmy. I can't ever go on vacation for a long time because my dad has a store and I always have to work during the summer. I've been on exactly one long term vacation, but I do not feel that this fact makes me less interconnected with the world. I have plenty of experiences working with people from different cultural/social backgrounds, and I too do not understand why extra points would be given to an applicant who is able to travel. Simply going to another coutnry does not make you any more knowledgable on the culture of that country... or any more "worldly." I come from a family that immigrated to Canada when I was around 4 years old and it took us a long time to settle down here. I haven't really had an opportunity to visit other countries, except for the occasional visit to the US for weddings and stuff. I think rather than just seeing "oh this person went to Africa for 3 months," the focus should be more on looking to see that the applicant has consistently demonstrated that they are able to work with and understand the complexity of the social structure around them

 

First bold: I disagree. Having travelled to a variety of countries (on vacation, not on humanitarian grounds), there are little nuances of culture you pick up, and keep with you, and do make you more aware of the diversity in cultures that exist. They do increase your respect and sensitivity to that culture imo.

 

Second bold: You are absolutely right. Just because you have travelled, does not mean that you are automatically better than someone who hasn't. I think the "final" applicant should be looked at; as you say, whether they show an understanding of that complexity as a result of travelling, or as a result of whatever, shouldn't matter - as long as that ability is there.