Thesis completion date

[eise]

Does anyone know how strict U of T is regarding defense date? Leslie Taylor emailed me back saying you have to successfully defend by the end of June (no exceptions) but I've heard from people that they are lenient on this. I don't want to screw myself over but I am desperately struggling to finish in time. anyone know if i can relax a bit?

[Diabetes dude]

I know a UT med student who defended M.Sc. mid August. My guess is that as long as you can wrap everything up before the orientation week it should be OK. It would be unreasonable for them to make you defer whole year because your defense was delayed by a month or two.

 

You may need to get a letter from your supervisor though, indicating in no uncertain terms that you will be able to finish by a given date (which obviously should be before the classes start).

[Violet98]

well that sounds resonable, but if you speak to the admissions department, they all say that the completion date - June 30th- is very very firm. Maybe they're saying that just to scare us into defending faster?

[katerade]

 

Also, UofT is VERY firm in not offering deferrals to people who haven't completed their grad degrees in time. I asked my family doctor (who is faculty at UofT) about this and she said they would only allow a grad student a deferral for the same reasons as an undergraduate (ie. pregnancy, death, severe illness).

 

uhh actually thats not true. finishing a graduate degree is one of the only things they will grant a deferral for. undergrad is different.

from the toronto med admissions site:

"Deferrals will only be considered on academic grounds."

[Violet98]

uhh actually thats not true. finishing a graduate degree is one of the only things they will grant a deferral for. undergrad is different.

from the toronto med admissions site:

"Deferrals will only be considered on academic grounds."

 

that's true...but according to Leslie Taylor not everyone who fails to finish their grad degree on time is granted a deferral.

[ducky]

an anecdote told me that so long as copies of your thesis have been sent to your thesis committee prior to June 30th (and the defense happens later in the summer) that you are okay. how much truth can be derived from that I'm not sure.

[katerade]

i know someone that got a deferral last year to complete his thesis

[ducky]

this question is sort of related: if you start a masters program in January, AFTER the med app has been submitted, does U of T even know you're in grad school, in which case can you abandon the masters or could you ask for a deferral in that circumstance?

[Jini]

I was curious about this too. If someone applies in their first year of a 2 year masters program, is there even any advantage of being a masters student? If you're accepted, will they defer you until you finish? If it's ok with your supervisor, could you finish the masters over your summers in medschool instead? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Violet98]

Master's are normally 2 or more years, and U of T will not allow a student to start med school unless they have completed their graduate degree, so applying to med school in your first year of a 2 year masters makes no sense, and I heard they do not look highly upon students who do this, unless the supervisor states that they can finish in the year, which is rare for a research based masters.

 

Also, if you started grad school in January and applied to med school and got in, you probably could drop out of grad school since they didn't accept you based on your grad degree. But you should make sure, I think you are required to declare this type of information, and it is possible that your application may become void if they found out.

[bustylegs]

Does anyone know how strict U of T is regarding defense date? Leslie Taylor emailed me back saying you have to successfully defend by the end of June (no exceptions) but I've heard from people that they are lenient on this. I don't want to screw myself over but I am desperately struggling to finish in time. anyone know if i can relax a bit?

 

Hi:

 

I deferred my acceptance to U of T for one year. I'm finishing my Ph.D. and will be joining the first year class in September.

 

From my personal experience, getting a deferral from U of T is easy provided that you have a good reason. A few months after I submitted my OMSAS application, but before my intervew, my research revealed something very interesting and I could get another pub out of it. By the time I found out I got an interview, I had already decided to carry out my plan of getting accepted first, then (hopefully) ask for a deferral later.

 

After I was accepted, I had to write a personal letter to Maureen Shandling to explain why I need to take another year to finish my degree. I had my supervisor write her a letter as well.

 

Therefore, deferrals are granted on an individual basis and as far as I know, by Dr. Shandling alone.

 

If you can, wrap up your thesis as early as you can. So you don't have to worry about anything. Alternatively, you can defer for a year and finish at a more leisure pace, but hope that your deferral request will be granted.

 

Hope this helps.

[bustylegs]

Master's are normally 2 or more years, and U of T will not allow a student to start med school unless they have completed their graduate degree, so applying to med school in your first year of a 2 year masters makes no sense, and I heard they do not look highly upon students who do this, unless the supervisor states that they can finish in the year, which is rare for a research based masters.

 

I would agree with Violet98's statement.

 

I think it's important to look at the situation from a grad supervisor's perspective. He/she obviously does not want a student to drop out of the program half way through since a lot of money, time and effort have been invested.

 

Neither grad school or medschool is for the un-committed, and using one for the benefit of another without fulfilling agreed obligations seems to be unfair... Maybe this explains why many researchers are reluctant to take students that aspire to be MDs....

[UTGuru]

To put this debate at rest, there are people in my first year class that defended their defence during the orientation week, and definitely a lot of people who defended their defence after the end of June. From what I know, if you do decide to defend your defence after June, you need a letter from your supervisor sent to Leslie indicating that your defence is late but it will be completed by the time school starts. You might think that UT would not hesitate to reject a student based on this issue and accept another student, but the truth of the matter is, once UT accepts you, they will do basically ANYTHING to make sure you are in the class.

[eise]

To put this debate at rest, there are people in my first year class that defended their defence during the orientation week, and definitely a lot of people who defended their defence after the end of June. From what I know, if you do decide to defend your defence after June, you need a letter from your supervisor sent to Leslie indicating that your defence is late but it will be completed by the time school starts. You might think that UT would not hesitate to reject a student based on this issue and accept another student, but the truth of the matter is, once UT accepts you, they will do basically ANYTHING to make sure you are in the class.

 

Thanks UTGuru! I guess my only hesitation is that Leslie said that exceptions for later defense are sometimes made but cannot be guaranteed. I would like (and need) more time to complete my thesis but not if my (potential) spot may be given away. I'm just not really willing to take the chance unless I was guaranteed it would be ok [and U of T is refusing to admit it is, prob bc they'd prefer us to (and are scaring us to) finish on time].

[cary_fan]

Hi eise,

 

From the past experience of several people in my program (Clinical Engineering) who have gone on to medicine in recent years, having your graduate chair submit a letter guaranteeing your thesis defense date and stating that you have completed all other degree requirements should be enough. As long as the date isn't too far into the future, having your chair state a fixed date should go a long way.

[UTGuru]

Hey eise,

 

I think for the worst case scenario where you don't finish your thesis on time, Dr. Shandling will most likely give you a deferral rather than rejecting you. Like I said before, once you are in, you are in. Their attitude towards med students is so much better. But hopefully I will see you in the 1T1 class next year!

[DiscoDoc]

Very good thread. I have a question. I have started work on my Masters now and will be officially enrolled in September. I am doing a fast-track and will be done in August 2008 (that is firm AFAIK). I am applying for med school this summer once the applications open and thus if accepted would be starting in September 08. Should I apply as a grad student, or should I apply as an undergrad?

Thanks!

[eise]

Very good thread. I have a question. I have started work on my Masters now and will be officially enrolled in September. I am doing a fast-track and will be done in August 2008 (that is firm AFAIK). I am applying for med school this summer once the applications open and thus if accepted would be starting in September 08. Should I apply as a grad student, or should I apply as an undergrad?

Thanks!

 

You don't apply as a grad or undergrad student. you simply list your education. if you are a grad student, they ask you to send a grad package in jan. I guess you can omit that you are currently in grad school when you are applying but i'm not sure how that would help you. If anything, U of T likes grad students. They still see all your undergrad stuff and the grad school is just a bonus - there's no seperate pool. I guess the only concern that I see is that they may not believe you will complete in time. But, on the application, you write when you plan on completing. so, as this thread suggests, if you submit a letter from your supervisor in your grad package stating you will defend before september, it should be fine. As a side note, how do you plan on completing a Master's degree in one year? Good luck!

[DiscoDoc]

As a side note, how do you plan on completing a Master's degree in one year? Good luck!

 

Thanks, eise! I started work on this project last summer as an NSERC position. I was offered a spot in grad school for this year, and so by next august I will have been working on it for 16 months (20 months if you include last summer). So it's more like 1 year and a bit.

[Violet98]

DiscoDoc, be sure that you are allowed to do that. My graduate department states that you are not allowed to use work that was done before your graduate degree began for your thesis. And if you must include it, they still require you to do the amount of work equivalent to a master's during the time you are enrolled. Double-check this with your department to make sure that it is ok to do what you have planned.

 

Good Luck with your future studies and with your applications!

[eise]

DiscoDoc, be sure that you are allowed to do that. My graduate department states that you are not allowed to use work that was done before your graduate degree began for your thesis. And if you must include it, they still require you to do the amount of work equivalent to a master's during the time you are enrolled. Double-check this with your department to make sure that it is ok to do what you have planned.

 

Good Luck with your future studies and with your applications!

 

I believe this is true but not always followed. I have a PhD student in my unit who basically completed her PhD in like 2 years bc as a research coordinator, she just used all the research she was already working on and put it into a thesis. Not sure if this is legit or not but it seems unfair (and like such a good idea!) .

[bustylegs]

I believe this is true but not always followed. I have a PhD student in my unit who basically completed her PhD in like 2 years bc as a research coordinator, she just used all the research she was already working on and put it into a thesis. Not sure if this is legit or not but it seems unfair (and like such a good idea!) .

 

I think what goes into a PhD thesis is up to the discretion of the thesis committee members and the supervisor.

 

Some supervisors may allow students to combine many co-authorships to form a thesis, but most want first-aurthorship work.

 

Therefore, I would for sure call a committee meeting and talk it over with the supervisory committee as they are the ones deciding what goes in your thesis.

 

Best of luck!

[daryn]

DiscoDoc, be sure that you are allowed to do that. My graduate department states that you are not allowed to use work that was done before your graduate degree began for your thesis. And if you must include it, they still require you to do the amount of work equivalent to a master's during the time you are enrolled. Double-check this with your department to make sure that it is ok to do what you have planned.

 

Good Luck with your future studies and with your applications!

 

Maybe that depends on the department...

 

My supervisor said that the work from something like a summer NSERC can be used towards a future graduate degree. However, a paid position (not a stipend -- so something like a tech) would be frowned upon by some.

[gschr099]

I also know that some graduate departments require you be registered for four full semesters before you can graduate, so if you may not be able to finish in three semesters.

[DiscoDoc]

I also know that some graduate departments require you be registered for four full semesters before you can graduate, so if you may not be able to finish in three semesters.

 

Thank you all for your input. At my Uni, they only require you to be registered for 2 full-time semesters minimum. My advisors were aware of my desire to start meds in 2008 and offered me a project they felt I could finish by next August. Otherwise I would have spent this year working in Engineering again while my apps were being considered by the med schools.