Funding for MD/PhD

[uwphysmed]

For those who know something about Toronto's MD/PhD program: How is funding and tuition handled? The FAQ has some nice vague suggestions, but does anyone have some concrete examples they'd like to share?

 

ex. I plan to enroll for a PhD in Medical Biophysics along with my MD, which requires entry into MSc and then a transfer. I hope to have an NSERC CGS/PGS-m leaving undergrad, but:

 

* If you don't start grad studies until year 2 (sequential route), are you part-time PhD until then? Is it worth applying for NSERC now at the end of undergrad - will I even be eligible if first year is all MD?

 

* If your graduate department guarantees its students a stipend, are you eligible for it in MD/PhD? MBP has a decent enough one, but I don't know if it's accessible to combined program students, and if so, for how long.

 

* I've heard the tuition paid is a 'blend'.....ok, so do you pay $12,000 (avg of the two) a year; $17,000 for 1st year $6000 for 2nd; etc.? Searching here hasn't struck anything good that I can see.

 

Thanks in advance!

[whatsupdoc]

I will be starting the MD/PhD program in Sept so I have some idea. I don't think it's worth applying to NSERC after undergrad for MD/PhD because you have to accept NSERC by Jan of the following year and you won't enter grad studies until after 1.5 years into the program. However, if grad school is your back-up plan, then apply for NSERC since you can always turn it down. MD/PhD program has funding available for some students as it says on their website and you can also apply for the CIHR MD/PHD Studentship. Tuition for the 1st year is the full med school tuition. Feel free to PM me if you want further details. Also, email the MD/PhD office, they are very friendly!

[hpylori]

Hey uwphysmed,

 

I'm one of the MD/PhD students from the 1T0 class and when you get into the UofT MD/PhD program, they will tell you in the admissions letter than you will ge given a certain amount every year over the next 7 years. You can apply for additional funding, but people usually do not do so until after they have identified a lab and started working oh their PhDs (as most funding agencies do not allow you to "reserve" your funding until when you actually start your research - ie: 1.5yrs after beginning med school).

 

whatsupdoc:

welcome to the class of 1T1!

[uwphysmed]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the input. I still intend to apply for NSERC this fall as I gather UofT isn't exactly swimming in spots for combined program students I suppose it's time to start saving those pennies for tuition again, since I was hoping that you'd recieve some of your grad department stipend to help defer costs throughout...

 

Perhaps the root cause of my confusion lies with how the dual enrollment actually works. So you apply to MD/PhD seperately from the grad department you intend to study in, and if you are accepted, the department is obliged to take you? Or is the underlying assumption that if you're good enough for the MD/PhD then there's no chance of being denied a spot where you want to study? With that in mind, for the first 1.5 years are you considered to be MD only, or does that depend on what stream you intend to pursue?

[hpylori]

The actually process is such:

You are accepted into the MD program with the title "MD/PhD". You aren't in any grad programs yet. People don't usually apply for grad programs before they even start their MD program because you apply for the grad program for when you are about to start the program. So, grad programs don't usually accept students who will be starting in 1.5yrs. Depending on the program (most popular with us is IMS), if you start in Jan 2008, the application deadline is Sept 2007. Now, before you even do this, you must first identify a supervisor first.

 

But yes, you DO have to go through yet another application process by the grad program itself. But it's true, this usually is just a formality.

 

I don't suspect you can apply for an NSERC, but you should check with the funding agency itself before you spend all your hard work on it!

 

I'm actually a bit confused as to what you situation is. Are you in the 1T1 class? and are you in the MD/PhD program right now?

[ducky]

The actually process is such:

You are accepted into the MD program with the title "MD/PhD". You aren't in any grad programs yet. People don't usually apply for grad programs before they even start their MD program because you apply for the grad program for when you are about to start the program. So, grad programs don't usually accept students who will be starting in 1.5yrs. Depending on the program (most popular with us is IMS), if you start in Jan 2008, the application deadline is Sept 2007. Now, before you even do this, you must first identify a supervisor first.

 

But yes, you DO have to go through yet another application process by the grad program itself. But it's true, this usually is just a formality.

 

I don't suspect you can apply for an NSERC, but you should check with the funding agency itself before you spend all your hard work on it!

 

I'm actually a bit confused as to what you situation is. Are you in the 1T1 class? and are you in the MD/PhD program right now?

 

thanks for that clarification, I was wondering whether you had to apply to the grad program simultaneously. Just curious, I've looked for some good threads on the MD/PhD but maybe haven't looked hard enough - what is a typical background of those accepted into the program? From what it sounds like they are considered relatively separate from the MD stream applicants, how are they considered differently?

[whatsupdoc]

Just make sure if you are applying elsewhere to look if they require a PhD application at the same time. I'm pretty sure this is the case for UWO.

 

As far as background, I'm not sure if there is a particular background. I think you just need to understand why clinician scientist vs just one and let that show.

[hpylori]

thanks for that clarification, I was wondering whether you had to apply to the grad program simultaneously. Just curious, I've looked for some good threads on the MD/PhD but maybe haven't looked hard enough - what is a typical background of those accepted into the program? From what it sounds like they are considered relatively separate from the MD stream applicants, how are they considered differently?

 

nope. application to a grad program does not need to take place just yet. granted, each grad program is different. for example, IMS entry in jan 2008, the deadline is sept 2007. So, there is lots of time.

 

they are considered differently from the md stream in the sense that you have to be accepted by both the MD program AND the MD/PhD programs (meaning two different sets of interviews)

[ducky]

nope. application to a grad program does not need to take place just yet. granted, each grad program is different. for example, IMS entry in jan 2008, the deadline is sept 2007. So, there is lots of time.

 

they are considered differently from the md stream in the sense that you have to be accepted by both the MD program AND the MD/PhD programs (meaning two different sets of interviews)

 

so if off the bat the MD program doesn't want you then the MD/PhD program won't even consider you? Or is it that the MD/PhD program would pull in your favour?

[peachy]

so if off the bat the MD program doesn't want you then the MD/PhD program won't even consider you? Or is it that the MD/PhD program would pull in your favour?

If the MD program doesn't accept you then you won't get acceptance to either program. That is, MD/PhD acceptance is contingent on MD acceptance.

[immernoch]

if you are rejected from the MD/PhD program are you still considered for the MD program?

[ducky]

If the MD program doesn't accept you then you won't get acceptance to either program. That is, MD/PhD acceptance is contingent on MD acceptance.

 

so it would mean nothing at ALL to the MD program that the MD/PhD wanted you?

[aintnogame]

1) if you are not wanted by the MD portion (ex. making outrageous comments during MD interivew) - this is rare, then you are not eligible for md phd, however, the md phd interview can compensate perhaps in some cases.

 

2) If you are not accepted to MD PhD, you are still eligible for the MD program.

[aintnogame]

I should have mentioned for those that dont know

 

there are two interviews on the same day,

A MD PhD interivew, and the regular MD interview as well.

[ducky]

so an interview to the MD/Phd is an automatic interview for the MD or does the MD program have to have already shortlisted you for an interview with them?

[whatsupdoc]

I'm not too sure about this, but i think if you're a competitive MD/PhD applicant, you'd most likely get an MD interview too! I'm sure there is communication between the two because the dean of admissions for the MD sits on the admission committee for the MD/PhD program (see website)

[ducky]

hmmm, thanks for the info. I ask because I've got a lot going for me (I'd think) for the PhD part, and while I consider myself a pretty good applicant overall, I think my GPA might hold me back in the MD pool

[peachy]

so it would mean nothing at ALL to the MD program that the MD/PhD wanted you?

With respect to interviews, I would agree with the post above: it would be unlikely that an applicant would get an interview to the MD/PhD program and not be competitive enough to get at least an interview to the MD program. If you "fail" your MD interview, even if the MD/PhD program wants you I think that you won't be given admission to the joint program.

 

I ask because I've got a lot going for me (I'd think) for the PhD part, and while I consider myself a pretty good applicant overall, I think my GPA might hold me back in the MD pool

My impression is that the MD/PhD program strongly considers GPA to be important. (I don't have any inside info about how their admissions work, it's just my impression).

[toffeetree]

So the md/phd program isn't fully funded? What exactly is the amount of support that they provide throughout the 7 years?

 

And what mechanisms does UT use to streamline MD/PhD students so that they can finish the program in the right amount of time?

 

Also, for MD/PhD interviews, i'm sort of concerned about talking about my current research because i don't want it to be scooped...but i guess we have no choice but to talk about it in detail, right?

[peachy]

So the md/phd program isn't fully funded? What exactly is the amount of support that they provide throughout the 7 years?

That's changed since I started the program so I'm not sure what the answer is for you. Best would be to email them and ask directly.

 

And what mechanisms does UT use to streamline MD/PhD students so that they can finish the program in the right amount of time?

They don't. When you're in grad school you're a full fledged grad student and it's up to you (and your supervisor, committee, and grad department) to finish in a reasonable amount of time.

 

Also, for MD/PhD interviews, i'm sort of concerned about talking about my current research because i don't want it to be scooped...but i guess we have no choice but to talk about it in detail, right?

Honestly, I can't imagine how discussing the topic of your research for five minutes could possibly give someone enough information to replicate your research in enough detail to get a publication ahead of you.... It's not like you're giving a talk or even a poster!

[toffeetree]

That's changed since I started the program so I'm not sure what the answer is for you. Best would be to email them and ask directly.

 

will do.

 

They don't. When you're in grad school you're a full fledged grad student and it's up to you (and your supervisor, committee, and grad department) to finish in a reasonable amount of time.

 

when do you start looking for a lab and when do you decide which lab to research in? is there a system of rotations, or is it a matter of contacting labs individually?

 

Honestly, I can't imagine how discussing the topic of your research for five minutes could possibly give someone enough information to replicate your research in enough detail to get a publication ahead of you.... It's not like you're giving a talk or even a poster!

 

that's a good point...i just asked because my research advisor keeps telling me that i have to work faster on my project because it is a good and original idea that others might be interested in...but that's probably just because he's trying get me to bring it to completion as soon as possible.

 

but on that note, i thought for mdphd, you DO have to talk about your research in detail, both in additional essays and in the interview.

 

how are you enjoying mudphud at UT?

[aintnogame]

There are no essays in the application process for MD PhD. You don't do any writing of any sort.

Also, during the interview, they won't ask you detailed questions about your research necessarily. Sometimes, they will only ask about certain research experiences, etc.

 

You have the 1.5 years of med school at the start to choose a supervisor, so it's easy to worry about that once admission is gained.

[toffeetree]

i see. so different from the us applications...probably better...less writing.

 

how would you compare canadian to american mdphd programs?