f.b.kal Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 I am in the most fortunate of dilemas - I must choose between going to the wonderful medical school at Queenès and graduating with $100,000 in debt, or going to U. of M. and graduating with little, if any debt (they have some good deals). The Queen`s interview was without doubt my most enjoyable (I also interviewed at U. of C.), and I am certain that I would enjoy four years studying there. Is this worth $100,000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vector Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 I'm in exactly the same boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahone Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Wellllll....first off, 100K in debt after med school is not ridiculous: ~$15K/yr tuition ~$12K/yr in living- ie rent AND bills ~$6K/yr in food and entertainment (which depends heavily on you and what you're into) Grand total of this INCREDIBLY rough estimate: ~$132,000. Rough? Absolutely. Reasonable? Absolutely. This doesn't factor in things like bursaries, electives and CaRMS interview travel. There is nothing ridiculous about $100K in debt - you'd probably be slightly envied for it. Depending on you field, there are almost certainly going to be opportunities to pay that off in just a couple of years, once you're completed residency. In other words, it can managed easily enough, considering the career path you are about to begin. This is very tough to do for you because nobody here knows your personality, financial and relationship situations. You also asked in another thread about if it's "worth it" - again, your mileage will vary. Do some searches, the merits and shortcomings of both Kingston and Queen's have come up repeatedly. I suggest you put some time in for yourself on this to see what grabs your attention-positive and /or negative. This is a tough one for sure - graduating with little debt would be a HUGE factor. I think Winni would be a fine place to go to med school (but I have never lived there); I also know that Ktown and Queen's are going to be great for me (I already know the city and school). I could say a lot of good things about Queen's and Kingston, but if you check some of the threads I quote here http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?p=188988#post188988 you'll find that not everyone is of the same mind. How that weighs against your debt concerns...that's up to you. FWIW, and it's really worth very little, I know- I'd love to go through relatively debt free AND be in Kingston!!!! This is going to be hard for you no doubt, but IMO you would do yourself a disservice by not doing a lot of research yourself. Best, k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuantum Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Hey, I'm going to UBC in the fall and I'm totally excited. It was the only school I was accepted to so whatever debt I will be facing I am prepared to accept. I'm probably looking at at least $150,000 - $180,000, possibly more in debt and I am not phased by that. Depending on your field, paying it off may actually not be as grueling as you think...just choose the best school for you. Congrats on being accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f.b.kal Posted May 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 It is true that 100K+ is not a "ridiculous" amount of debt, considering that this debt can be paid off relatively quickly. To be sure, I thoroughly enjoyed my Queen's experience, and in fact, after MUCH research I believe that both the Queen's curriculum and atmosphere are better suited for me (than U of M). Furthermore, I would love to be on my own and broaden my horizons. I am not sure, however, if all of this is worth the large cost difference. That is the one thing that keeps the U of M in the running for me. I just wanted a feel for how others are navigating their decision and to know if the decision has proven difficult. Some have remarked that cost, as a criterion, should not be weighted too heavily in the decision-making process. I appreciate these sorts of comments and hope they keep coming. Kahone, did you choose Queen`s medical school over your home-province`s program? Vector, what might keep you in Mb? Well done to everybody who has made it this far and good luck to all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vector Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Hey f.b.kal, I'm in the same boat and considering the same factors as you. I feel it's time for me to be on my own as well and the independence vs. familiarity debate is pressing on my mind. I'm also concerned about how my relationship with certain family members will change as a result of the separation. I also enjoyed the atmosphere at Queen's. Culturally, it's very different from Manitoba... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastalslacker Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Doctors make lots of money. Four years is a significant amount of time. Go where you think you will be happiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raj99 Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 I've never posted on this forum, but since it looks like there are two manitobans in the exact same predicament as me I thought I might as well. This is interesting, considering a friend I know who just graduated from Queen's Med said that in 8 years he was the only manitoban...so I guess it would be nice if there were more than one of us down there next year. Either way, I'm struggling with many of the same issues. Manitoba offers convenience, friends, family, and cost-effectiveness, whereas I see Queen's as a chance to exert my independence and attend a top university...a chance I won't have for another four years if I stay (and I'm not sure I can wait that long). I was likewise impressed by the campus and general atmosphere of the med school and enthusiasm of the students. So in my mind it's the logical and pragmatic pull of Manitoba versus the emotional yearning to be at Queen's. At this point however it looks like the emotional side is tipping the scales... If either of you want to talk this over don't hesitate to e-mail me and maybe we can have a chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jixe Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 whereas I see Queen's as a chance to exert my independence and attend a top university... Is that the correct line of thinking? Aren't all med schools in Canada considered to be top-tier (i.e. no second-tier)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 I live in Manitoba myself, and I chose Queen's over U of M. I finished my undergraduate degree at U of M and I didn't want to stay for medicine; I didn't even apply to U of M. It has been my experience that, in order to become excellent at what you are doing, staying in one spot all your life is insufficient. There are subtle differences in the style of teaching at different institutions that have to be transcended if a relatively complete picture of a field is desired. Therefore, I decided that it's time for me to leave. This is not to say that medicine at U of M is bad, or that it will make you a bad physician if you already have an undergrad degree from U of M. You will be a good physician. However, it becomes that much harder to become an excellent physician if you haven't seen anything other than U of M. That's my two cents, at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vector Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Really leaning towards Queen's here too... I feel like it's time to move away from Manitoba and go to a place where the culture is different. I may want to come back when it's all done, but an opportunity such as this doesn't come by too often. I'm glad so many Manitobans were offered spots this year!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vector Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Raj99 and kal - PM'd u. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xylem29 Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I live in Manitoba myself, and I chose Queen's over U of M. I finished my undergraduate degree at U of M and I didn't want to stay for medicine; I didn't even apply to U of M. It has been my experience that, in order to become excellent at what you are doing, staying in one spot all your life is insufficient. There are subtle differences in the style of teaching at different institutions that have to be transcended if a relatively complete picture of a field is desired. Therefore, I decided that it's time for me to leave. This is not to say that medicine at U of M is bad, or that it will make you a bad physician if you already have an undergrad degree from U of M. You will be a good physician. However, it becomes that much harder to become an excellent physician if you haven't seen anything other than U of M. That's my two cents, at any rate. I 2nd Apothecary's views. I think it is pretty much an absolute necessity if you want to expand your life experiences and grow as a person, you cannot spend your entire life living in the same comfort zone having the same experiences. You need to live somewhere else where life is quite different from what you are used to for some part of your life, so I'd say go to Queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuantum Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Definitely agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poolboy Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Moving to new places can be one of the greatest times of your life - I would go for it. If I'm going to pay off my debt from school, how much would the minimum amount be that a new doctor would make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayervillager Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 If I'm going to pay off my debt from school, how much would the minimum amount be that a new doctor would make? Actually, I've always wondered about this - do we have to start paying back our loans right after medical school (ie. during residency), or will we only have to start making our payments after residency (ie. the amount that a "new doctor would make")? I remember hearing Rehan from Queen's Meds talking about how hard it is to make minimum payment on a loan based on your 1st year residency salary, especially if someone is doing residency in a city with high living costs like Toronto or Vancouver. He went on to say that's why osap's rules needs to be changed etc. etc. However, I am not entirely sure if I understood what he was talking about. Can someone clarify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoh Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Depends where you do your residency. Some places you are considered a full-time student during residency, others you're not, hence the differences in student loan payback. Mind you, that's just government loans. Not sure how it works for LOC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayervillager Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Depends where you do your residency. Some places you are considered a full-time student during residency, others you're not, hence the differences in student loan payback. Mind you, that's just government loans. Not sure how it works for LOC's. So at some places I will have to start paying back a approx. $180,000 student loan during residency? Yikes! Now I get why he was complaining... Thanks for the explanation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying kumquat Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 You shouldn't have to start paying back on the whole thing during residency, just your government loans if you don't happen to be doing residency in the provinces that classify you as a student. Payments on the principle of your line of credit don't usually start until after your first year of residency (or potentially later), although the banks would "encourage" you to start paying it back as soon as possible. Of course, you're paying interest on your line of credit this whole time, and by the end of med school, this could easily be a $500/mo payment, or more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfette Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Congrats on getting into Queen's and Manitoba! Every school in Canada is a great school and you're going to be a good physician no matter where you go. They all have their individual strengths and weaknesses as schools. I don't think you can really go wrong no matter which school you choose. But I think for reasons of personal growth, it's nice to go out of your home town. I figure that once you actually start working and "settling down" you'll probably stay in one place for a long time (you can travel, but that's not the same). University (med school) is a great time to broaden your horizons and go somewhere away from home. You can always return to Manitoba to practice if you want to go back home later. I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I'm from BC and I got into UBC and also a couple Ontario schools. Staying in Vancouver is cheaper (I could live at home) and definitely easier (I know my way around, have friends here, etc). I love Vancouver and I could definitely see myself coming back here to practice (well, at this point in time, anyways). But I personally think I would lose the experience of being on my own, meeting more people from outside of BC, and having a chance to be away from Vancouver. And I think these are really valuable opportunities and life experiences; Carpe Diem. So right now I'm very much leaning to going "out East" despite the obvious financial incentives (and some emotional incentives) to stay in Vancouver. Of course, the equation changes drastically if you have a significant other and/or children that are in Manitoba that wouldn't easily be able to move with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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