Mac vs. Western

[chemenger]

I hate to start a versus thread, but I'm still not 100% decided between McMaster and Western and I'd love to hear some more opinions about the two.

 

I initially thought that McMaster had the better (national/international) rep from all the curricular innovation they have spread. I am a little worried about the non-structured learning, but having never experienced true PBL (engineering undergrad) it's tough to say whether it would be for me. I've noticed that Mac doesn't seem to do to well on forum polls and was wondering if the learning style was the whole issue.

 

Western, on the other hand, seems to be very well structured and a doctor I spoke to said that all their grads are extremely well-trained. The CaRMS first choice stats seem to be in Mac's favour, but they do have a higher number going into Family Medicine. I'd appreciate any thoughts from students at either of these schools or premeds/current applicants. Thanks in advance.

[Toroharo]

I don't really know much about Western, but one thing less commonly brought up about Mac is the selection of specialties. Since the curriculum is condensed into three years, students have less time to think about what they want before applying for residency. That was the concern a Mac med friend of mine brought up. She said it would be nice for someone choosing Mac to have an idea of what one wants to do, though people's preference may still change during the actual hands-on. She was happy to confirm her inclinations through her rotations and applied for residency accordingly.

 

Good luck!

[utwaitlister]

I have a friend that is finishing up at Wetsern and one that is completing their second year at Mac.

 

Based on my coversations with them...

 

If you go to Mac, you are done med school in three years. This is important if you do not want to be in school for as long. Also, the class hours for a Mac student is much less than the class hours you had as an undergrad (you can have a part time job to help offset costs of med school and also be given time do indepent study as well as beef up you resid. appicatoin). Moreover, Mac does not really have exams. Meaning that you will have lower stress levels than if you went to other schools and Mac focuses on you being able to pass your medical boards at the end. (I have a friend at U of T and he told me his whole class was stressed out for the boards.) Mac believes you will do most learning during your clerkship and really focuses on that aspect. You first year they give you enough information you need to handle clearkship.

 

Western is more like a traditional med school. I heard that the first year is pretty easy and the second year is tough. As for the clerkship years, I was told it was just like anyother school. How it compares to Mac? I do not know. I guess that is something you should look into.

 

Ultimately I would make a list of what you want to get from med school and what the schools offer you personally. Go the the school that gives you the most of what you want. Just remember that some items on you list might be really important to you and make sure you weigh your list items appropriately.

 

I appologize for any typo as I have written this quickly and have not check it over.

[looking]

Also, I am under the impression that in general, you will be stressed out consistently at McMaster (not knowing if you know enough), but to a lower level than other schools, while in traditional schools, the stress will be cyclical, so at times you won't be stressed at all, but at other times you'll be much more stressed than you would ever be at Mac.

[NLengr]

I am a little worried about the non-structured learning, but having never experienced true PBL (engineering undergrad) it's tough to say whether it would be for me.

 

All the engineering programs in the country are set up to foster independent learning skills. As you've probably heard 1000 times before: "Engineering school doesn't teach you anything except how to think and how to learn."

 

Every Canadian engineering program uses at least a moderate amount of problem based learning, especially at the senior levels. Senior design projects are an excellent example. Your group are selects a problem (for example mine was "Development of a Risk Management Plan for a Natural Gas Handling Facility") that you probably have at best a small amount of general training in. You have to research the problem, figure out how to use the research, develop solutions and implement them. None of which you are taught in school. It's all independent learning and execution. That's probably as close to PBL as you can get in an engineering program.

 

I wouldn't worry about it. The overall skills and abilities that are developed in engineering students during their education are phenomenal. A good engineering grad is already used to working in PBL based scenario's.

[Dante]

when i saw this thread, i immediately thought 100% western... but all these comments are changing my mind... mac's actually got a lot of good things going for it...

[piratefan]

here's my two cents for western -

as we're nearing the end of the semester, the first big pro that i can think of is that we have summer vacation (for the first two years, at least). i'd be hard pressed to find any classmates who would trade in two months of travelling/research/work/bumming around for two more months of medical school (even if it did mean finishing early).

with the new curriculum at western, the workload promises to be better distributed over two years than it was in the past. we also have fewer lecture hours than past classes did, but still sit in lecture from 8:30-12:30 every day (and have more classes 3 afternoons a week)... i like having lectures, since it forces me to really focus on those subjects that i might otherwise neglect (eg hematology, eck). we do have some small group learning at western (at least once per week, often two sessions, and occasionally more). i find the quality of the small group sessions to be very facilitator-dependent - perhaps a mac student can better speak to this issue.

a final reason why i'm happy to be at western - all mandatory clerkship rotations are completed during third year, which should (theoretcially) better equip you to select your fourth year electives and eventual choice of residency. fourth year also allows time for students to pursue a research block, an overseas elective, etc. all electives are completed by the time that carms interviews begin, allowing students to focus on their residency goals/decisions.

 

that's my two cents. but i'm biased, since i love western (despite having 6 finals to write within the next week).

 

~pf

[Zuckman]

From what I've heard from my friends that have attended either of these schools, you will likely learn more at Western...but it's likely that lots of what you learn is not needed. Also, my Mac friends hate Hamilton...pretty gross city.

 

One of my friends at Mac says studying in the summer is really hard. I think Western is better in pretty much every way. However, at Mac you do finish 1 year earlier than at other schools. The curriculum is always changing at Mac and I think it's partly because the curriculum was so bad in the past...too many complaints from the students and poor LMCC1 results. This is just what I've gathered from friends at these schools. The Western people have definitely complained a lot less.

 

Zuck

[chemenger]

Thanks for all the input guys. Your points were very valid, particularly the comments about Western's clerkship sequence and PBL aspects of engineering.

 

Any Mcmaster students care to add anything?

[NeuroObsessed]

here's my two cents for western -

as we're nearing the end of the semester, the first big pro that i can think of is that we have summer vacation (for the first two years, at least). i'd be hard pressed to find any classmates who would trade in two months of travelling/research/work/bumming around for two more months of medical school (even if it did mean finishing early).

with the new curriculum at western, the workload promises to be better distributed over two years than it was in the past. we also have fewer lecture hours than past classes did, but still sit in lecture from 8:30-12:30 every day (and have more classes 3 afternoons a week)... i like having lectures, since it forces me to really focus on those subjects that i might otherwise neglect (eg hematology, eck). we do have some small group learning at western (at least once per week, often two sessions, and occasionally more). i find the quality of the small group sessions to be very facilitator-dependent - perhaps a mac student can better speak to this issue.

a final reason why i'm happy to be at western - all mandatory clerkship rotations are completed during third year, which should (theoretcially) better equip you to select your fourth year electives and eventual choice of residency. fourth year also allows time for students to pursue a research block, an overseas elective, etc. all electives are completed by the time that carms interviews begin, allowing students to focus on their residency goals/decisions.

 

that's my two cents. but i'm biased, since i love western (despite having 6 finals to write within the next week).

 

~pf

 

++ I second everything piratefan said...

(Cardio final tomorrow... :eek: )

G'luck with choosing a school

[blinknoodle]

I wanted to highlight the clerkship schedule for both UWO and Mac. I have a friend in Mac who is constantly complaining about her electives in clerkship. After seeing her available rotations, I completely understand (see http://65.39.131.180/ContentPage.aspx?name=Compass_Curriculum_Outline). UWO not only has 2 summers off, the entire clerkship in 3rd year and all electives in fourth year prior to CaRMS. If you look at Mac's schedule, many rotations (over half!) start with electives (ouch!) and all continue with electives in Feb-March of your last year, after CaRMS interviews. Many Mac students don't feel as if they have enough elective time and choose to forego vacation time for more electives.