Anyone here from Guelph?

[Guest tina]

Hey, anyone here from Guelph University (Ontario)... I'd love to hear about your science programs...

[Guest aneliz]

I'm a 4th year biomed at Guelph. There are at least two others from Guelph that post here as well (Liana and Tal.) Check out the thread 'Question for Liana, if you're still here.' It pretty much covers the pre-med situation at Guelph. Any other questions, post away!

[Guest tina]

I was wondering hearing about all the talk about the competitive atmosphere in "premed" program ... I am hoping that Guelph is not stricken with this... How do you find it?

 

I am applying to Biological sciences. Is this the program you are in... I really like the fact that there is so much major to choose from.

 

Anyways, I guess you want to go into Med school... so what made you choose Guelph of all schools (Esp. since it does not even have a med school.)?

[Guest aneliz]

This is a really long post. So, if you don't care about the pre-med scene at Guelph, I'd recommend skipping it.

 

Tina,

 

I love Guelph. I haven't attended any other Ontario universities, so I can't tell you how it compares to other schools, but I will do my best to answer any questions you have about the atmosphere or programs here.

 

Guelph has a *huge* focus on biological science areas. There is an entire College of Biological Science that is composed of five different departments: human bio and nutrition, molecular bio and genetics, zoology, microbiology and botany. As well, there is also an agricultural college which has departments like environmental science, animal and poultry science, etc. In addition to this, there is the Ontario Vet College which has departments like biomedical science, population medicine and pathobiology. Physical science is also a separate college. This system of organisation is different from other schools in Ontario which often have combined faculties of science (bio and phys together) or even combined faculties of arts and science. The diversity of bio courses and majors is primarily why I chose Guelph. There is so much more flexibility and so many more specialised courses to choose from. Of course, at the time I started first year, I was convinced that I wanted to be a vet, and, seeing as Guelph has the only Vet school in Ontario, it was a natural choice. The other reason I chose Guelph is because it has a biomedical science program. At the time, it was the only Ontario school to offer a program like this. Now there are also health science and med science programs at Western, Mac and others.

 

If you are interested in bio sci, there are basically two routes that you can take at Guelph. You can do an honours or general degree in straight bio sci (which lets you select courses pretty much as you want from any department and doesn't have too many required courses) or, you can pick one of the many majors such as molecular bio and genetics, or biomedical science, or zoology, or nutrition -you get the idea. These majors are much more rigid in structure than a bio sci major and most have many more required courses (less elective time). I chose option two and have majored in biomedical science. All science students take the same core courses in 1st year, so you don't necessarily have to know what major you want before you start. It is also fairly easy to switch between majors in second and even in third year. (Obviously it's easier the more related the majors are. Eg: It is easier to switch between nutrition and biomedical science than between human kinetics and botany.)

 

And now for the Guelph atmosphere. Guelph is a magnet for wannabe vets. You will find that a large majority of the incoming bio sci and aggie students want to be vets. Likewise, I am pretty convinced that it would be hard to find a pre-vet at other Ontario schools. Given that you can apply for vet after your second year of university, and the fact that there are only 100 spots available (in all of Ontario), competition in the big, required first year courses can be intense (especially among pre-vets). The odds of getting into vet school are even worse than med school. (Hence the comment in another post about someone choosing medicine as a backup plan after being rejected by the vet program.) The averages for Vet are generally higher than med admission averages (although this has not been true in the past two years due to the introduction of new admission requirements like the MCAT). However, a large percentage of the vet admission decision is still based on grades, specifically the required pre-reqs. Vet pre-reqs just happen to be (surprise?) the big first and second year science courses that everyone is required to take like general chem I & II, bio I&II, calculus, stats, genetics, biochem, etc.

 

So, at the end of second year, most of the wannabe vets apply to OVC and one of two things happen:

 

1. They will get in and will no longer be in your classes. This removes some of the most hyper-competitive people, especially the ones that are sitting on 95% averages and think that they are really hot stuff.

 

2. They will get rejected. Most get either a big dose of humility or a big kick from reality at this point. Some will keep at it and re-apply to OVC at the end of their third year. Others will give up the vet dream and head in different directions for their 3rd and 4th years.

 

Either way, things really settle down in third and fourth year. Some of the most rabid pre-vets are now vet students and are gone. Other people discover that there is more out there than vet and that they either don't have a hope in hell of getting in, or, that they really don't want to be a vet (like me). In third year more people begin to realise that the only person you really need to compete against is yourself. It's about personal best achievement not about getting 0.5% higher than someone else on a mid-term. Having said all that, Guelph is not a 'stab everybody else in the back' kind of competitive. Most people are willing to help others out in first and second year, its just that everyone wants those high marks. Thus, the standards are extremely high because people are willing to work there butts off to get high marks. Profs are really nice and usually very fair and approachable even for first years. I've found courses to be well structured and laid out and expectations and assignments are clear. Guelph isn't an easy school, but it's a fair school and there is lots of help available to you to help you succeed.

 

There are not as many pre-meds here as there probably are at schools with med schools. (Likely for the same reasons that there are very few pre-vets at Mac or Western.) So, for the pre-meds that can distance themselves from the vet wannabes, competition is not too bad. Some majors are more competitive than others, for example biomed tends to be more competitive than botany. Overall, I don't think that competition is that bad at Guelph. It is more intense in first and second year but it certainly doesn't take over your life. It depends if you want to play that game and, if you're not caught up in the pre-vet rat-race, you really don't have to. Personally, I've had a great time here and I'd come back to do it all over with no questions or regrets. I've had some great times and great experiences over the last 4 years.

[Guest tina]

Wow... thanks for such an in-depth response...

 

I am seriously considering Guelph now... i went to the March Break campus Day on Wednesday. Guelph U is very spirited and all the students were so nice =D

 

I am at the moment checking out the majors in biological sciences (there is so much to choose from!!!). Also, how competitive is Human Biology?

 

Thank you once again!

[Guest aneliz]

No problem. I'm glad that you are seriously considering Guelph. I'm sure you found that it's a lot more than an aggie and vet school contrary to many popular rumors... It's good when people look past the popular 'moo u' image to see what is actually here.

 

As for 'human bio', are you meaning human kinetics (HK)? (Guelph doesn't have a human bio major.) HK tends to not have too many pre-vets in it -unlike animal bio or zoology or even biomed. However, it is still a decently competitive major. Most people in HK have some aspirations of continuing their education beyond their BSc (grad school, teacher's college, medicine, physiotherapy, etc.) Most pre-meds at Guelph are in HK, biomed or nutrition although there are some in straight bio sci too. Overall, HK tends (in my opinion) to be a little more relaxed than biomed and a little more competitive than nutrition or bio sci. But, when picking a major, it is important to pick the major that is most interesting to you. I would recommend that you check out the UofG undergrad calendar on the web.

www.uoguelph.ca/undergrad_calendar/main.shtml

 

You can check out the required courses for each of the different majors, see what your course load would be like and also read the course descriptions. See which courses sound most interesting to you and pick a major that best matches the courses that you think that you will enjoy. That is how I picked my major. Don't let the reputations of schools/programs/courses influence your decisions too much. Always pick what is best for you. If it is interesting and enjoyable to you, you will succeed. Don't stress too much though. Remember, everyone at Guelph takes the same courses in first year and you can always switch your major later. I've known people that have changed from molec bio & genetics to psych, fine arts to political science and wildlife biology to english! The possibilities are endless and nobody expects you to have your life 100% figured out when you get here. One prof told us that something like 70% of students think about changing or change their majors at least once before they graduate. So, keep an open mind, explore new areas and pick what interests you the most!

 

Good luck!

[Guest Tal]

Wow, I was to reply and tell you how great Guelph is, but I think aneliz has said it all!

Anyway I just wanted to add that I love it here, its such a friendly university.

Also, if you're applying to residence here, make sure to consider applying to be in a cluster. Academic clusters are the greatest ever! You live on a floor in rez with other 1st years all in your program! (so all the bio-sci programs together) and with a 2nd, 3rd or 4th year (a cluster leader) also in your program who's taken all your courses and helps you through 1st year. I was in a cluster last year and I'm a cluster leader this year, and I don't know what I would have done without my cluster in 1st year!! (They're generally a lot friendly floors than other floors too

Anyway, thats my advertisement for clusters. (Plus we go on fun trips like to the zoo, where we're going on saturday!)

Good luck! And make the most of it wherever you go

 

(PS to aneliz: I really don't think the averages are higher for entering vets than meds at all. Most of my friends are applying to vets, and they were all told to just keep their averages in the required courses (not even all their courses!) above 80. And I've seen a lot of people getting in with high 70s (and those people were not the lower averages, more close to the average) plus they really only need 7's in the mcat (lots are actually applying with 6s, and were told thats fine too.) Anyway I just found all that interesting when I learned it, because there's so many rumors saying that you need such high marks to get into vets when I really don't think thats the way it is.)

[Guest Liana]

I think the fact that their applicant pool was cut in half when they introduced the MCAT requirement may have something to do with their lower standards compared to the rumours. Maybe the rumours reflect the competition when they had twice as many qualify applicants from whom to choose.

[Guest anne]

I graduated from U of G in June 2001. I guess it has been pretty well summed up in other posts but here are my two cents worth..... Best four years of my life! I am in Toronto now and I try to go back to Guelph whenever I can. Aside from Guelph being a FANTASTIC university, living in Guelph was great. It is a very relaxed town and just about anything goes. Unlike other universities, people don't feel the need to dress up to go to class (makes sense- it's more comfortable) and no pesky dress codes in the bars. I never regretted for a moment going to Guelph and I would recommend it for anyone wanting the most memorable four years of their lives!

[Guest tina]

Thanks to everyone, esp. Aneliz for helping me out. THis forum is awesome and informative. I have not yet decided where to go next year, but Guelph is on the top of my list.

 

I am planning to go the Guelph day workshops on April 26. Hope to see some of you there.

 

P.s. do anyone know if there is a hospital near by Guelph university?

[Guest Liana]

If you're wondering about volunteering activities, the Guelph General Hospital is quite far from school (2 bus rides away ~30-40 minute commute, or not much longer if you were to walk). However, you do NOT need to volunteer at a hospital unless you REALLY want to. On campus, there is a competitive volunteering program called the First Response Team, which operates as a first aid service between 5:00 pm and 8 am. There are a bajillion other places to volunteer, that will give you just as great (if not better) an opportunity to help out. You can volunteer with the Student to Student Support Services (a student counselling group), you can be a Peer Helper anywhere on campus, there's a Volunteer Connections office that can set you up with a huge number of volunteering placements throughout Guelph, often places that have a much greater need (and often much greater responsibilities in the position) than a hospital.

[Guest tina]

To Aneliz, Melissa Y., Liana and other from Guelph U,

 

I would love to hear about the courses that you took in your UG (starting from first year)... what elective did you guys take?

 

Also, would you mind telling me the kind of extracurriculars you were involved in at Guelph? Thank you =D

[Guest tina]

I was reading in one of your posts about your GPA and MCAT scores. Wow, that's awesome. Congrats.

 

I am trying to plan out the best time to take my MCAT. I was wondering why you took your MCAT? Where? Thanks.

[Guest aneliz]

Hi Tina,

 

In first year you really don't have a lot of options (only 2 electives). I thought I would give you a run down of the courses that I have taken seeing as you asked.

 

Semester 1

 

Biology I

General Chem I

Elements of Calculus I

Physics for Life Sci I

History - Science and Society Since 1500 (elective)

 

Semester II

 

Biology II

General Chem II

Elements of Calculus II

Physics for Life Sci II

Psychology- Dynamics of Behaviour (elective)

 

In my first year I did a bunch of extra-curricular activities. I played in the university concert band, volunteered with students for literacy, participated in the college royal dog show, was a student ambassador for admission services and lived in a bio sci cluster.

 

Semester 3

 

Intro Biochem

Genetics

Cell biology

Intro Nutrition and Food Sci (elective)

Philosophy of Medicine (restricted elective)

 

Semester 4

 

Structure and Function in Biochem

Molecular Bio

Fundamentals of Nutrition

Statistics I

Philosophy - Basic Problems (elective)

 

In second year I continued with the same extra-curriculars more or less. I also became an SLG leader in my second year (Peer Helper position).

 

Semester 5 - I took an extra .5 credit course in this semester. (3.00 total credit weight, normal = 2.50)

 

Mammalian Physiology I

Ethics - Genetics Our Uncertain Heritage (elective)

Philosophy of Religion (elective)

Functional Foods and Nutraceuticals (restricted elective)

Epidemiology

Psychology - Princiciples of Behaviour (elective)

 

Semester 6 - I took an extra .25 credit course this semester.

 

Mammalian Phys II

Principles of Disease

Pharmacology and Toxicology

Medical Embryology

Lab Exercises in Mam. Phys

Organic Chem I (elective -hahaha!)

 

Similar Extra-currics to second year. I also worked for admission services as a tour guide during this year. I wrote the MCAT at McMaster in August of 2001. (Summer after third year because I didn't take Orgo in second year.)

 

Semester 7

 

Organic Chem II (elective!!!)

Human Anatomy I (.75 weight course)

Biomedical Histology (.75 weight course)

Pharmacology II ( restricted elective)

 

Semester 8 - Again, 3.00 credit weight in this semester.

 

Human Anatomy II (.75 weighted course)

Mammalian Neuroanatomy (elective)

Biochemical Endocrinology (restricted elective)

Philosophy - Critical Thinking (elective)

Nutrition and Metabolic Control in Disease (restricted elective)

Instrumental Music I (elective)

 

Again, similar extra-curriculars.

[Guest mying]

Alright. Since you asked (I dunno if there's two Melissa Y's but I am a Guelph person )

 

My first year or so is just about irrelevent, since many of the courses don't exist any more or were specifically a part of the Akademia program which has changed drastically since then (good thing, too, as it ensured I needed to do a fifth year) but I'll include it all the same. I didn't start off with a clear goal of Medicine, but the path I took led me there.

 

Legend:

MBG = requirement for Molecular Biology & Genetics major

soc minor = requirement for Sociology Minor

restricted elective = picked one out of a list to meet MBG requirements

Akad = requirement for Akademia program

 

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> First year:<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

General Chemistry I (0.50) (MBG)

General Microbiology (0.50) (MBG) <-- now part of Bio I/II

Mixed philosophy/geology (0.50) (Akad)

Elements of Calculus (0.50) (MBG)

Intro Plant Biology (0.50) (MBG) <-- now part of Bio I/II

Intro Zoology (0.50) (MBG) <-- now part of Bio I/II

Mixed english literature/environmental science (0.50) (Akad)

Mixed media studies/environmental science (0.50) (Akad)

Reading the Contemporary World (English) (0.50) (Akad)

Intro Physics for Life Sciences I (0.50) (MBG)

Summer:

Principles of Behaviour (0.50) (elective)

Intro Physics for Life Sciences II (0.50) (MBG)

Extra-curric: Akademia Student Council, lived in Akademia cluster, Assistant Coordinator for College Royal Dog Show, St. John Ambulance Brigade (certified as EMR that summer), Ability Online conference host/tech,

 

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Second Year:<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (part time year)

Anthropology (0.50) (soc minor)

General Chemistry II (0.50) (MBG)

Intro Genetics (0.50) (MBG)

Intro Cell Bio (0.50) (MBG)

Intro Biochem (0.50) (MBG)

Quantitative Research Methods (Soc) (0.50) (soc minor)

Statistics I (0.50) (MBG)

Foundations of Programming (0.50) (restricted elective)

Extra-curric: St. John Ambulance Brigade (training assistant), designed a webpage for St. John Ambulance, Ability Online conference host

** moment of epiphany and realized medicine was the one career that best incorporated everything I loved about school and volunteering.

 

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Third Year:<!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (incidentally my best GPA)

Mammalian Physiology I (0.50) (restricted elective)

Intro Italian (0.50) (elective)

Intro Molecular Biology (0.50) (MBG)

Principles of Disease (0.50) (restricted elective)

Intro Sociology (0.50) (soc minor)

Mammalian Physiology II (0.50) (elective)

Mammalian Physiology Lab (0.25) (elective)

Organic Chem I (0.50) (elective)

DNA Replication & Environmental Mutagenesis (0.50) (MBG)

Sensation and Perception (0.50) (elective)

Contemporary Native Peoples of Canada (0.50) (soc minor)

Summer:

Organic Chemistry II (elective)

Statistics II (0.50) (restricted elective)

**wrote the MCAT August. PS:13, VR:10, BS:14, WS:S

Extra-curric: certified First Aid/CPR instructor, continued with St. John Ambulance Brigade and Ability Online, worked as temp medical secretary for a week, volunteered as temp caregiver for adults with developmental disabilities

 

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Fourth Year:<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

Population Genetics (0.50) (MBG)

Lab Methods in Molecular Bio I (0.75) (MBG)

Microbial Growth (0.50) (MBG)

Classical Theory I (0.50) (soc minor)

Crime and Criminal Justice (0.50) (soc minor)

Structure and Function in Biochem (0.50) (restricted elective)

Human Genetics (0.50) (MBG)

Quantitative Genetics (0.50) (MBG)

Structural Molecular Biology (0.50) (MBG)

Classical Theory II (0.50) (soc minor)

Summer:

Ecology (0.50) (restricted elective)

Extra-curric: job as Student Consultant for computer labs, continued with St. John Ambulance (admin. officer), first aid instructor, webpage editor, Ability Online (planning committee)

**I interviewed at Western that spring, and was accepted that summer "conditional on GPA >3.65". Guess who had a GPA of 3.63. I promptly bawled my eyes out and went camping for a week. This brings us to...

 

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Fifth Year<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

Research Project I (1.00) (MBG)

Intro Apiculture (0.50) (elective)

Natural Chemicals in the Environment (0.50) (restricted elective)

People, Plants, and Society (0.50) (elective)

Research Project II (1.00) (MBG)

Plant Breeding (0.50) (MBG)

Communication Processes (0.50) (elective)

Music and Pop Culture (0.50) (elective)

Extra-curric: St. John Ambulance (Superintendent, callin' da shots), certified in BTLS and AED, certified as EMR instructor, completed Grand Prior's Award program (kinda like the Duke of Ed, which I'm doing now), continued with Ability Online, temp as medical secretary, jobshadowed ER doc at Credit Valley (set up through St. John Ambulance)

** I interviewed at Queen's and at Western, was accepted to both, now living in the shadow of University Hospital in London.

 

There, dunno if that is helpful or not, read into it what you will.

[Guest Ian Wong]

Wow! You guys have been extremely helpful. Thanks for the big posts.

 

Ian

UBC, Med 3

[Guest BC guy]

My cousin who graduated from a private girl's high school with marks of 85% went to Guelph for her first year of undergraduate. She really wanted to get into Vet there and as she thought that getting high GPAs at UBC is very hard to do, she choose Guelph. Her marks were all in the 90s while at Guelph, and she felt that she probably would not be anywhere near those kind of marks had she decided to go to UBC. But after 1 year at Guelph, she decided to move back and not continue there as she did not like/enjoy it at all. I believe that she is personable, but she said that it was hard to make friends, only acquaintances.

[Guest aneliz]

While I don't discount your cousin's experience at Guelph (everyone is different) I personally have not found it difficult to make friends here. I have made some of the best friends that I have ever had here. Did your cousin live in residence??? It is *much* easier to make friends at Guelph if you live in res, especially in first year. At Guelph, >85% of all first year students are in residence (we have over 5000 residence beds!). I have heard that it is harder to make friends as a first year off-campus student simply because most people tend to meet in res and much of the social scene -in first year especially- revolves around the residences. It can be harder to get connected if you are off-campus because you feel isolated from the already formed res friend groups. Most people coming to Guelph don't come here knowing already knowing people that are here. When I came to Guelph, I knew no one. (Nobody from my graduating class in high school came to Guelph with me.) Everybody on my floor in res was in the same boat. We became friends pretty quickly. While not all of us became best friends, four years later there are still many people from my floor in first year that I speak to on a regular basis. (And they are pretty scattered throughout the province at this point!) Anyway, regardless of school, university is what you make it. If you get out and join some groups and participate in some extra-curriculars you should have no problem making friends.

[Guest mying]

I'd have to echo that. I wouldn't really say there is anything about Guelph that makes it hard to make friends... if anything, the larger universities have that disadvantage. I too made some excellent friends at Guelph that even now a year or two since I or they graduated we are still close and very much in contact. I wasn't in the bar scene (I was underage for most of it and too innocent to use fake ID). I met them through extra-curriculars, through Akademia, and through mutual acquaintances. I don't think this is any different than how the social scene other universities work.

[Guest tina]

Wow... what a wealth of information! Thanks Aneliz and Melissa for the breakdown... I still have not yet received a courses booklet for next year, so I am trying my best to figure out some of these courses.

 

Is it true that I have to go down to Guelph before the start of the school year to register in my courses? Talk to an academic counsellor? If so, when do you suggest I do that?

[Guest aneliz]

Hey Tina,

 

Guelph has stopped publishing a course calendar in paper format (arghhh....). So it is only available now on the web. This is good news for you because it means that it is available right now! You can check out all of the courses and all of the majors now.

 

Here is the link to the most recent edition of the calendar.

www.uoguelph.ca/undergrad_calendar/main.shtml

 

Check out the descriptions of the academic programs, they will give you a breakdown of all of the required courses for each major and minor as well as the suggested order that you take them in. You can then look up the course description of particular courses in the course descriptions section.

 

You do not have to come to Guelph to register for courses. You can register for all of your courses over the internet. It's called webadvisor. It allows us to add and drop courses, check our class schedules, and look at our marks all over the internet. It is fairly new (wasn't in existence when I first started here). If you are uncomfortable choosing courses over the internet you should also be able to fill out a paper form and mail it to the university. No worries. You can come and see an academic counsellor if you want but you don't have to. They also respond to e-mail (usually at lightening speeds) or you could give them a call. Don't worry, you will get information about all of this stuff with your acceptance package. It will give you the blow by blow instructions on how to use webadvisor, what courses to take and where to get help if you need it.

 

Arts students *did* (when I started) have to come to the university for an academic counselling session before picking their courses. This never applied to science students. Why? Arts is much less structured than science is in first year. As a first year science student you HAVE to take biology, chem, calculus and physics regardless of whether you are an engineering or an agriculture student (or anything in between). In comparison, arts students are only required to take 2 arts and 2 social sciences. So they need a little more help deciding what to take!

 

So don't worry yet!