e_is_hv Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Hello All, I've been invited to an MD/PhD interview at University of Toronto. Since I have absolutley no one to talk to about the program, I thought I'd pick the brain of some people here (many, many thanks in advance). 1) the program at Toronto says it takes an average of 7 years in total to earn the MD/PhD. I have a really hard time believing the PhD portion takes an average of 3 years - it's a PhD for goodness sake! Honestly, I'm just an undergrad student, and the whole thought of doing a PhD is a little intimidating, let alone in 3 years. I know I could handle an MD/MSc as you only really need 1 1st author paper and course work (I believe). How crazy IS the workload? Do you MD/PhDers have a life outside of school (I'm asking this in all seriousness). Do you find you're able to still pursue a hobby or have some free time? 2) It was news to me that many residents take a "leave of absence" during their residency to pursue a master's or a PhD. Can I ask - what does the master's give you though? As far as I know (very limited), you need a PhD to supervise grad students, so it occurs to me you really couldn't do much research...can anyone shed some light on this? 3) Lastly, a practical aspect - money. In my very limited understanding, a doctor bills the government for each patient he sees and whether he prescribed medicine/did a simple operation etc. If you're an MD/PhD and you spend half your time doing research - how are you paid? Does the hospital give you a base salary? Does a, say, a MD/PhD neurologist make more (or even the same) as the same calibre "simple" MD neurologist? I know it's a little vague, but I think it's a legitimate question. Thanks very much everyone! Merry Christmas - I really appreciate your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I have a really hard time believing the PhD portion takes an average of 3 yearsThat is, frankly, a blatant lie. Nobody takes 3 years to finish the PhD. In fact, taking four years is pretty fast and I suspect that 5 is most common. How crazy IS the workload? Do you MD/PhDers have a life outside of school?The MD years of the MD/PhD program are basically regular MD years. So you can have a life outside the program as much as any medical student. Similarly, the PhD years are regularly graduate student years. So, you need to be as committed to the lab and grad school as any non-MD/PhD student. It's easiest (and most accurate, I think) to think of the combined program as an administrative structure that lets you stick a regular PhD in the middle of medical school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 What's the advantage of doing a MD/Ph.D. versus just doing a Ph.D. first, then med school or vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirsteen Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 What's the advantage of doing a MD/Ph.D. versus just doing a Ph.D. first, then med school or vice versa? Hi there, One advantage is for folks who already know what type of research interests them, or if they're already involved in some sort of research. By going the MD/PhD route, you can pretty efficiently stay on top of your current research without taking too much of a hiatus from the field and thus, without risk of losing touch with the latest findings and active groups in the field. Also, if your PhD has any sort of clinical relevance then it will be a strength when it comes time to apply to residency programs, especially in the eyes of those schools that value research. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_is_hv Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Hey everyone thanks for posting - Peachy I especially appreciate your thoughts and candor about the length of the program at U of T. Can anyone answer my question about salary and th epoint of a Master's? Thanks again! e_is_hv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 2) It was news to me that many residents take a "leave of absence" during their residency to pursue a master's or a PhD. Can I ask - what does the master's give you though? As far as I know (very limited), you need a PhD to supervise grad students, so it occurs to me you really couldn't do much research...can anyone shed some light on this?You don't need a PhD to supervise grad students, there are many clinician researchers at U of T (including those who supervise MD/PhD students) who don't have a PhD. I don't think it's a good idea to think of either a Masters or a PhD in terms of earning the piece of paper with the letters on it, or in terms of earning an advantage for residency programs. If those are your main goals for doing the combined program, imho, it's not worth it. Rather, think of it in terms of what _you_ need to build the skill set that allows you to become a competent independent researcher. For most people, a PhD is an excellent way to develop those skills. On the other hand, if you can somehow develop those skills without doing any graduate work, then you'll still be able to do everything that you want to do as a medical researcher. Btw, sounds like you have some very good questions: take the opportunity on your interview day to pick the brains of the MD/PhD students who will be hanging out in the waiting room for the interviews as well as at the lunch and you should get some good information. They are a very friendly group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirsteen Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Hi there, Further to the above question re: the necessity of a PhD, I've faced a similar situation recently. I'm aiming for an academic career and already have a MSc. in Epidemiology. Due to activities related to my MSc. and within medical school and residency I've managed to build a healthy CV. However, since I felt there was still more I wished to learn and began to consider a PhD, I asked some folks in the know (former research mentors and staff at UofT) what they thought about my completion of a PhD. In short, they said that I could skip the PhD and still be quite successful at a large academic centre given my research experience and ability to pilot projects. On this end, however, although I feel I can take the initiative to create research opportunities, I think I can do better and I'd like to learn more inre: methodology and other tacit bits. In addition, I noticed (at the largest Radiology conference in N. America), that among those individuals who were successful in obtaining grant money, the majority (95%) had PhDs. I'd like to bet that there is a correlation between PIs who can perpetuate their research careers and those who hold PhDs and I certainly don't feel at this point that I could write a great set of competitive grants for large pots of funds. Thus, for a number of reasons I'm eyeing the start a PhD in the next few years. Cheers, Kirsteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest begaster Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 This is a bit of a hijack, but how does the doctor-researcher program during residency compare to doing an MD/PhD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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