Guest ricorod Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 First of all, I think this website is great(!), but I do notice a slight bias in terms of posts regarding medical school outside Canada. Although I would certainly prefer to study and practise medicine in Canada, I realize that getting into schools here is TOUGH, and so I have begun to look at foreign schools (i.e. US, UK, Ireland, and gulp, Caribbean) as well. I seem to be unique, though, in the sense that it would not be a great loss if I couldn't come back to Canada. So.....there are many people like myself (I think) that just want to know what it's like studying abroad - i.e. what's involved for admission, what the curricula are like, opportunities after graduation, etc. Please do not use 90% of your posts to talk about how tough it will be to come back to Canada! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strider2004 Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 Most schools in Europe enroll students straight from secondary school so they are six years long instead of 4 years after some undergraduate education like over here. The caribbean schools are known to have low USMLE pass rates. However, one of the schools(I think St George or SABA) has a high pass rate. This is because they weed out students during the first couple years of med school. The caribbean schools do have clerkship in the US. The difficult part is getting a competitive spot for clerkship. It is hard for us to give you very precise information about international schools because we don't attend them. All I know is that an education in the US or Canada will give you the most opportunities around the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MEDCOMPSCI Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 Well if you do go abroad (other than to the US) it will be almost impossible to secure a residency in Canada, and even if you do it will not be anything other than Family/IM. As for the US however, one can secure a residency as an IMG (ie - other than US/Canada). Just don't expect to be an opthamologist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Coming back to Canada for residency will be tough, no doubt about that. On the other hand, if you don't really care where you practise medicine, then exploring the international med school scene might not be a bad idea. I think as long as the country you are in is fairly progressive, you'll find a quality education. Examples would include the US, the UK, and Australia. I'd really stay away from the Caribbean medical schools as their reputation really isn't all that stellar. Ultimately, you need to finish a residency in order to practise as a physician, and while the former three countries have a multitude of specialties that you can enter, I don't think the same can be said for the Caribbean. One other point to consider is that your education will be much more expensive as an international student. This will be true whether you end up in the US, Ireland, Australia, or wherever else other than Canada. Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted October 16, 2001 Report Share Posted October 16, 2001 Here's a short article worth reading as far as returning to practise medicine in Canada after graduating from an international medical school, despite being a Canadian citizen. www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-163/issue-1/0013b.htm Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted October 16, 2001 Report Share Posted October 16, 2001 Almost forgot this article too. Here's another article regarding studying abroad. Near the bottom is the story of another Canadian citizen who studied medicine abroad, this time in Glasgow, who is now facing an uphill struggle to practise medicine in Canada. www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-162/issue-6/0868.htm Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimbo Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 But aren't things changing? I am optimistic that it will be possible to get a Canadian residency from a foreign med school in a few years. THe thing is though that getting a residency in the US is easier, and very do able. I've explored this route.... I don't suggest UK if your grades aren't good enough for Canadian schools... unless it is your MCAT holding you back. UK schools only accept 5% internationals, and they prefer to take from countries without their own med schools. Ireland is a good route I think... 5 years with a degree. Australia I think is also good. The carib I think is also not a bad option... esp if you're single and want a couple years in the sun. You must be cautious about which school though. The carib route is better for the US residency than the Canadian I think, more accepted there than here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 You can already get a residency, it's just that as an FMG/IMG, you can't match in the first round of CaRMS. Therefore, since you can only match in the second round, virtually all of the competitive specialties are filled, and most other positions in desirable locations are also full. You're right in that there is currently a proposal/discussion going on in Canada about letting a limited number of foreign med graduates match into the CaRMS first round. However, as far as I know, this idea is being met with a significant amount of resistance by the CFMS, the Canadian Federation of Medical Students. The rationale being that many foreign med graduates would then be taking away the desirable residency positions from Canadian medical graduates. It's sort of a selfish position on the behalf of us Canadian med students, but I think the fear is that if the first round of CaRMS is fully opened up to FMG's, that a large number of them, particularly those who already have some or all of their specialty training complete, will then take away a large number of what was traditionally <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> our<!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> residency seats. In either event, I don't see residency spots for FMG's being significantly opened up within say the next five years or so, but that's just my hunch. I think it would be a risky gamble to go foreign under the assumption that more seats will be available. You also have to bear in mind that enrollment has been increasing at many Canadian med schools over the past few years, and yet I don't think the residency spots have yet been increased to make up for that higher demand. Under the current first and second round rules of CaRMS, those students again would have priority over FMGs even if the number of residency positions was raised. Knowing what I know now, coupled with my desire to do my specialty training in Canada, I don't think I would ever apply to a UK/Australia/foreign med school unless I was willing to do my specialization, and possibly a large amount of my practice over there. Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimbo Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 "Knowing what I know now, coupled with my desire to do my specialty training in Canada, I don't think I would ever apply to a UK/Australia/foreign med school unless I was willing to do my specialization, and possibly a large amount of my practice over there." Yes but I think most people who are looking at foreign schools do so because they cannot get in here in Canada. So it is foreign, or no med school. As it is now, one can count on a residency in the U.S. It may not be in derm or ortho, but you can get fp with a carib degree no problem, as long as you do ok on the boards. I think (from the grape vine) coming from an Irish school you can get more competetive residencies. The lifestyle in the U.S. is very good and the environment is not that foreign to Canadians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Wong Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Hi Jimbo, I posted some of my previous thoughts regarding studying away here at the bottom of this adjacent thread: pub44.ezboard.com/fpremed101frm22.showMessage?topicID=2.topic I agree with you in that if you really want to practise medicine, that going to the Caribbean med schools means that in all likelihod that you will graduate and secure a US residency position if you have the drive and motivation to do so. However, you already sacrifice so much while in medical school in in Canada as far as how much med school, your teachers and doctors, and your patients demand from you. Point in fact; I just finished a 17 hour shift in Emerg today, (although I was in large part responsible for that scheduling), and I expect my hours to increase even further once I start my surgical rotations in November. Even then, your future isn't even that secure as a Canadian med graduate in terms of matching into a specialty that you want in a location that you prefer. In the end, I can't think of much worse than sacrificing as much time and effort into medicine only to match into a specialty that you don't truly love. I hope this doesn't come off as sounding ungrateful, or conceited or anything else (especially to those readers who are just trying to enter med school), but that's my honest belief. To go to a foreign med school means leaving even that small amount of security, and I think for me personally, it would be a hurdle that I wouldn't want to jump. For example, it's going to be hard enough as it is to match into ENT, which will be the only specialty I will be applying to next year; had I gone to a foreign school, ENT just wouldn't even be a realistic option due to its massive competitiveness in the US. However, I have a high school classmate who is beginning her first year of medicine at a UK med school this fall, after two unsuccessful years of Canadian med applications. I wish her all the best, and am proud of her determination in achieving her goal to become a doctor. If you want something badly enough, you can usually find a way. Incidentally, I stumbled upon a website tonight with match lists for Saba medical school. The match lists themselves look quite impressive, but I don't think the number of listed residents is anywhere near the number of people who were actually enrolled in that particular year. ie: this website is omitting all of the people who failed to match for that year. www.geocities.com/muha223/index.htm And here are the match lists for the last four years: www.geocities.com/muha223/match2001.htm emran3.tripod.com/match2000.htm emran3.tripod.com/match1999.htm emran3.tripod.com/match1998.htm Ian UBC, Med 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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