Feel terrible... is it a smart thing to apply to U.S. schools?

[JanDoc]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm a 4th year at UofT with a fairly good GPA (~3.9), but a weak extracurricular list. I applied to McMaster and Ottawa this year and got rejected without a interview invite. I want to attend med school in Canada but I am really losing my confidence in getting in anywhere. I feel insecure even in planning to apply to Canadian medical schools next year. I think I can improve my extracurricular activities by doing some quality work this year, but still you never know with Canadian schools (or that's just how I feel now)... Honestly, I always thought volunteering abroad and other amazing stuffs that people do (whether or not they led to an acceptance to med school) was meaningless and that doing what I really like is something that really counts, it now seems to turn its back on me.. I have one summer of research, one year of hospital volunteering, some office work, and summer international exchange... and that's about it. I enjoy sports and have been involved in several community clubs. My family is not well off, so I had to help my parents with their business everyday which really limited my time outside of school. I'd believed that I tried my best to allocate the time I had. But now with rejections, I feel I underachieved.

 

I looked carefully into what kind of stats and extracurriculars got interview offers and eventually got accepted into various med school in U.S. but it seems so random. Of course, I don't know what specific activities each successful applicant participated and how much effort is involved (and for privacy reasons, most won't share such information on the board), I still hope you could help me make this decision. What kind of activities have you been involved in? Would international volunteering help?

 

Another question I have is, I have been reading many threads with an advice to apply early (June) and also interviews were done pretty early (October~)... then, how would one improve his/her application significantly in such a short period (say, February~ June), also taking into account that I have a summer research job waiting, not allowing me to do anything significant during the period.

 

You might've been picking up some grammatical errors above, and obviously I was born elsewhere and came to Canada when I was in Grade 8. I am still learning English and this may be one reason that I am struggling so much with verbal reasoning on the MCAT. In Canada, although there are some discrimination, people are very kind toward immigrants (I'm a Canadian citizen, though my English is still at the level of an "immigrant" - I'm an East Asian)... But, I HEARD that a great proportion of population in U.S., especially in rural areas, have prejudice towards people speaking English as their second language. This comes to me as a great burden in considering applying to U.S. Anybody from the states and have lived there could comment on this?

 

Furthere, I would have to get a huge loan to study abroad. This is another barrier...

 

With my stats (I haven't written the MCAT yet, but assuming I get around 35...) would I stand a chance of getting into some quality med schools in U.S.? What do they look at generally? Do they put a heavy emphasis on extracurriculars, or look at an application more holistically (put personal situations into consideration e.g.)?

 

Maybe I am just too anxious to write coherently today... My writing is a mess... Please help me and share your experiences... Thank you for reading!

 

-Jan

[xylem29]

Long post. You seem to be worried and stressed about your chances - don't be.

 

You are, unlike many others, in a very good position. You seem to write quite well and if you are able to get a 3.9 at the university level, your english is certainly not at the "immigrant's level". Remember, fluency is about sentence structure and comprehensible, is what you say comprehensible with respect to vocabulary and structure - an accent doesn't mean you can't speak english.

 

Now, as for the ECs, sounds like you've got a great list of them to me. The experience at your parent's business is a legitimate one. The key to your ECs is not what or how many, but how you present them. Are you able to present them as meaningful? That's key.

 

Have you done a full-course load every year? That may have been why Ottawa rejected you. MacMaster doesn't look at your ECs pre-interview, so it must've been your ABS answers. Point: Don't sell yourself short.

 

Next time, take the time to really polish your application, the descriptions of your activities need to be very well done.

 

Take the MCAT, do well. Verbal is about practice, practice, practice. I suggest you start reading NOW, if you don't already. May I suggest EK's method for VR and their 101 Passages in VR book - excellent investments. Buying the AAMC MCATs are a must also.

 

Finally, re: the US rural towns - yea, well, what difference does it make? You're not likely to end up in hicktown anyway, so don't concern yourself with stuff like this. Other than that, yes - apply early, score a high MCAT and with the 3.9 and the ECs improved (what you have now is good already), you'll get into a good school. Do not neglect the interview preparation and finally, my last point, if you want to improve the ECs aim for leadership expereinces. For the US schools however, clinical experience is pretty important - hosptial volunteering, nursing home, hospital porter, doctor shadowing, etc...anything that invovles patient interaction.

 

Good luck!

 

edit: International volunteering is EXCELLENT if you have it, not required BUT demonstrates many qualities that adcom's look for. If you are thinking about it, DO IT. I am this summer.

[Dr pipo]

Being rejected from Mac and UofO is not that bad. The fact is that they get a lot more applications that any other schools in Can and they are forced to reject many qualified applicants. So, don't take it personal, it happens all the time.

The huge loan to study abroad is a SERIOUS fact that you have to consider before hand.

If you land on a descent MCAT score (30+) then with your high GPA US schools are doable if you apply to the right ones (the ones willing to take from the other side of the border).

US schools put a heavier emphasis on (quality of) extracurriculars than Canadians counterpart which are more about GPA. Due to some unknown reason Can schools try to score everything even your EC.

 

Actually your writing is pretty good, so don't worry. Look at mine, I moved to Canada in my 20s and this causes my VR section to be low enough to make me stacked up for med school.

________

MEDICAL CANNABIS

[flamesfan]

i would also like to elaborate your application is a lot more competitive than you give it credit for. your gpa is awesome considering u of t and working to help teh family is not a negative aspect. however you must play that in your application because otherwise you will be seen as a bookworm with minimal outside interests.

 

you put 35 as your estimate and i am not sure if you are familiar with that but it is a very strong score. if this is an accurate representation then you are in great shape.

 

-apply early: start thinking about a personal statement that incorporates the aspects of your life, medicine etc., also you should look at having 2-3 referees from school and 2-3 from volunteer, job etc.

 

-evaluate the financial situation: in fact this is first.

 

-write the MCAT

 

your timeline should be MCAT end of May so your results are received by end of june so that you can submit your total application knowing your mark

 

also, when you do the mcat you make yourself competitive at all of the other canadian schools so dont rule that out either

[ManU]

The nice thing about the US applications is that they dont have 48 spots like our applications, they only have 15, so you need less ECs but they need to be strong. On top of that, you mentioned you are doing research and a lot of the schools there love research. If you have a strong GPA (if you go to UofT, any mark above 80 is considered 4.0 in the united states on the AMCAS scale), and if you score a 35 (it is approx the 95%ile) then you should at least get interviews at a majority of the schools. One other thing to consider is that you get a primary application essay where you can outline a lot of the difficulties or struggles you have had to overcome. The essay is not just something they take lightly, in each of my interviews in the US (top 20 schools) they had all read my essay thoroughly and it was the basis for a lot of the discussions that came up. Don't worry about getting rejected by UofO and Mac - they are both very difficult schools to even get interviews at. If you right your MCAT you increase the likelihood of getting into schools (simply because you can apply to more).

 

You can PM if you have questions about the interview process, or when to apply in the US. But first thing - write your MCAT and reapply to Canadian schools.

[Halcyon]

Great advice from all.

 

I'm always happy to hear the US schools give a damn about your experiences. Here, I feel like everything I've done is worth nothing unless I have a 4.0 OMSAS GPA to get an interview.

[ontariostudent]

As a Canadian with a good GPA, I think you have a very good chance of getting into a Canadian school. You just need to take the MCAT and get a balanced score (at least 10s in each section), pick up a few more ECs next year and you should be very competitive. By not having the MCAT you severely limited yourself this year, and as mentioned above Ottawa and McMaster get a lot of qualified applicants (because they don't require the MCAT) so not getting an interview there is not indicative of future failure at Canadian schools. You seem to write very well (I didn't pick up on the fact that you were an immigrant until you mentioned it) so you should be fine. Just work hard on how you present your previous experiences and try to add more for next year. You should have a good chance. Also, don't leave the spaces blank, even if you have to put stupid things. At least they'll think you have done a lot.

 

With regards to applying to the US... their rolling admissions process is very very different from the Canadian system. You should aim to have ALL your secondary applications in by the end of August in order to be competitive. There are more US schools than Canadian ones but they strongly focus on all aspects of your application so you will need good ECs, MCAT scores, and GPA (you already have the good GPA). The earlier you apply, the better your chances will be. A good candidate who applies late has virtually no chance at most schools.

 

If you choose to apply to the US, make sure you really understand what that means before you do it. Applications get VERY expensive and you want to know that you have a chance before you spend all the money. Work hard and get everything early and it will pay off.

[Guest viscous]

to the OP: if you really want to do medicine, keep US as an option. yes, the heavy tuition is a turn-off for me. Imagine paying $60k per year while Canadian counterparts will be paying like $8k after all the OSAP stuff and grants etc? yes, it is like a prick in the balls but that is what it is. You can either "waste" another year of your life to play the cat/mouse game within the Canadian system OR you could apply to the states (if you have good enuf stats) and start your journey of studying medicine. yes, it will be expensive but is there anything that you can do about it? Sometimes waiting for 1 more year, for those who have already been waiting for the last 2 years, gets a bit too much excessive. Lets say you get into John Hopkins and by the end of 4 years, you have paid them $250,000. Is it any better if you compare it with lets say your admission at UofT? I will stick to UofT but I will always have this yearning "I wish I could afford to go to JH"

 

What I have learned from this years canadian app cycle is that if you screwed up something in your gpa (lets say first year), no matter how much you have changed yourself, your past will haunt you. Play your cards properly.

[Alastriss]

hard to say. If you are actually going to get a 35 then you will be in great shape. Howeve ryou said you are struggling with verbal, which means that you would need to get an 8 to make the screening cutoffs for certain schools. All this just to even get a secondary.

 

Its too premature to say, but we should wait and see what your mcat score is.

 

It will be expensive. However it will be worth it. Paying off the loans will be easier if you stay and practice in the US for a while, given that you can join private practices that offer loan forgiveness programs/bonuses that can be pretty helpful in paying off those loans before interest accrues to gargantuan amounts.

[ontariostudent]

If medicine is your definite plan and you aren't set on practicing in Canada, you should FOR SURE apply to as many places as you can afford (assuming that applying widely won't affect how much effort you put into each application). Don't lose hope in Canada, though, if your GPA is good. Many of the Canadian schools work on a cut-off basis, so if you do well on the MCAT and have a high GPA you will have a very good shot.

 

That's not to say you should EXPECT to get into a Canadian school (even a 45T with a 4.0 shouldn't expect to get in), but I wouldn't give up. Next cycle apply within Canada but also in the US, and focus on schools that have a history of taking people with your stats.

[JanDoc]

Thanks so much to all your kind responses. My feelings got better reading these posts and now I am doing some research on the schools in U.S. One thing I wasn't so clear in my post was that of all prerequisites for U.S. schools, I only have 1/2 chem and 1/2 org chem done. I need to take English, Physics and two half courses in chem. I am aware that I only have to take these courses before summer 2010 (wel,,, assuming I get in somewhere in September 2010). But, would having all these courses "in progress" on the primary application put my chances of getting an admission at risk?? i.e. Would the schools say, well why did this person not take these courses until now???

 

Also, now I have to seriously consider how I can spend the free year most efficiently. Since I have to take the prerequisites, I won't have enough time to work full-time... I have three options that I am thinking about:

1. work part-time in retail and also tutor high school students

2. go out of province and experience different things; also work in the new province

3. just take the courses and travel outside Canada when time allows me... (looks a little too relaxed to me)

 

What do you think of these plans? Any other advices?

 

Again, thanks a lot for your help

 

-Jan