foregoneconclusion Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hey guys, I've been a long-time lurker of P101 but I've never actually had reason to post. Until now. I just got waitlisted at Queens and UWO and for that reason, I'm now looking at applying to the States. I applied to the States last year but my primaries were submitted in late September and secondaries in Oct/November. Needless to say, I was an idiot and just handed AMCAS/schools $2000 for nothing. So here's the dilemma. I go on a trip this Friday and won't be back until June 20. After getting burned so bad (applied to about 15 schools, not one positive feedback), I want to do nothing but apply as early as possible. But I'd sort of like to know where I stand with Canada first (money's really tight for more apps) and I also don't want to apply while I'm in another country. Is June 20th too late? An alternative might be to apply to 5 or 6 schools for primary initially and then add more when I realize that Canada is definitely a no-go. If I do, I'd probably try Case Western, Maryland, Georgetown, SUNY Upstate, Penn State, and Boston. But again, money's really tight at the moment and I'll be in another country, so can I realistically wait until June 20th? My stats are 3.98 GPA (with AMCAS), 10P/11V/12B/R and plenty of clinical/school-extracurric experience. I appreciate your advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASMED Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 I would not limit yourself just to those schools. While you have a killer GPA and a decent MCAT, the American application system can be a bit of a crapshoot. You never really know where you are going to get interviews/acceptances from. For example, last year, I got interviewed by Dartmouth but outright rejected by Wayne State. It's also important to keep in mind that certain American medical schools feel Canadian-friendly some years, while other years, for one reason another there are no Canadians in there class whatsoever. I think that June 20th is fine. But when you do apply, definitely apply very broadly if that's at all possible - financially-speaking of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest copacetic Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hey guys, I've been a long-time lurker of P101 but I've never actually had reason to post. Until now. I just got waitlisted at Queens and UWO and for that reason, I'm now looking at applying to the States. I applied to the States last year but my primaries were submitted in late September and secondaries in Oct/November. Needless to say, I was an idiot and just handed AMCAS/schools $2000 for nothing. So here's the dilemma. I go on a trip this Friday and won't be back until June 20. After getting burned so bad (applied to about 15 schools, not one positive feedback), I want to do nothing but apply as early as possible. But I'd sort of like to know where I stand with Canada first (money's really tight for more apps) and I also don't want to apply while I'm in another country. Is June 20th too late? An alternative might be to apply to 5 or 6 schools for primary initially and then add more when I realize that Canada is definitely a no-go. If I do, I'd probably try Case Western, Maryland, Georgetown, SUNY Upstate, Penn State, and Boston. But again, money's really tight at the moment and I'll be in another country, so can I realistically wait until June 20th? My stats are 3.98 GPA (with AMCAS), 10P/11V/12B/R and plenty of clinical/school-extracurric experience. I appreciate your advice! wth those stats im shocked you didnt get into the american schools before, even applying late. at least an interview...but that aside, june is not to late to apply. i didnt get everything done till around august last year. in general if you submit your amcase by mid august, adn get confrimed by early september you're in the middle of the pack (in terms of timing), and i honestly believe your stats will make you standout at that point in the game. make sure, however, that you put effort into your secondaries and personal statement. they COUNT for alot...unlike in canada... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted May 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 wth those stats im shocked you didnt get into the american schools before, even applying late. at least an interview...but that aside, june is not to late to apply. i didnt get everything done till around august last year. in general if you submit your amcase by mid august, adn get confrimed by early september you're in the middle of the pack (in terms of timing), and i honestly believe your stats will make you standout at that point in the game. make sure, however, that you put effort into your secondaries and personal statement. they COUNT for alot...unlike in canada... Yeah, I'm not being cocky or anything but having bought the AMCAS stat book last year, I was shocked to get no love from schools like AECOM or SUNY Upstate. Sorry if I wasn't clear, the 5 school-list was an idea for applying to a few early June just so that I don't spend all that money in vain (i.e. if I hear I'm in at a Canadian school sometime in June) and then adding more later. As for the personal statement, I did something really creative but after no love from America and getting rejected by UofT (same essay, slightly longer), maybe it really isn't as good as I thought it was? I have no idea, I consider myself to be a solid creative writer. My list of 15 experiences was quite short with the descriptions, could that be it? I have no idea, I posted on studentdoctor and it was general consensus that although applying in September isn't a lost cause, it is if you're a Canadian (because once schools fill their Canadian quota, that's all folks). Have there been a lot of success stories from P101 members who've applied for primaries in late June/early July? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parachutes Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 I would recommend fully describing your experiences and what you gained from them. As for your essay, you need to get accepted med students, recent med graduates and/or an admissions consultant to know if it was good for sure. You have to know what the committees want. I was complete in late October (some in November) for secondaries and received interviews at half of the schools I applied to. If you have a strong application, it will get noticed. Applying in June or July is not late at all, just be sure to turn around those secondaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted May 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Thanks for the help guys. This whole process has been so stressful (it's 5 am right now, can't sleep, lol). I'll leave it for June 20th, once I'm back from my trip. Who knows, maybe in between Canada will show me some love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest copacetic Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 I would recommend fully describing your experiences and what you gained from them. As for your essay, you need to get accepted med students, recent med graduates and/or an admissions consultant to know if it was good for sure. You have to know what the committees want. I was complete in late October (some in November) for secondaries and received interviews at half of the schools I applied to. If you have a strong application, it will get noticed. Applying in June or July is not late at all, just be sure to turn around those secondaries. i agree when describing your experiencs spend as much time here as you would on your personal statement. i had a paragraph (s) for most experiences and really tried to convery what i had learned from each of my experiences! remember, in the states, EVERY part of your application counts for something. not like canada. U of T may not even read your personal statement if you dont make the MCAT cutoff, etc. the process is so rigid in canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I appreciate the help guys. Here's my school list from last year, was I shooting to high or was there something I didn't know about applying late to these schools? Albert Einstein College of Medicine Boston University School of Medicine Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine Columbia University College of P & S Dartmouth Medical School Georgetown University School of Medicine Jefferson Medical Coll. of Thomas Jefferson Univ. Mount Sinai School of Medicine Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Scien SUNY Upstate Medical University University of Maryland School of Medicine University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine Vanderbilt University School of Medicine Wayne State University School of Medicine Yale University School of Medicine (pipe dream) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest copacetic Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I appreciate the help guys. Here's my school list from last year, was I shooting to high or was there something I didn't know about applying late to these schools? Albert Einstein College of Medicine Boston University School of Medicine Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine Columbia University College of P & S Dartmouth Medical School Georgetown University School of Medicine Jefferson Medical Coll. of Thomas Jefferson Univ. Mount Sinai School of Medicine Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Scien SUNY Upstate Medical University University of Maryland School of Medicine University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine Vanderbilt University School of Medicine Wayne State University School of Medicine Yale University School of Medicine (pipe dream) looks like youre applying to almost all tier 1 schools. i applied and inteviewed at a couple of these schools. heres a tip for jefferson...theire really big on training excellent clinicians. they dont care as much about getting superstar researchers as some of the other schools (ala Case, Yale, UPenn, Einstein etc). and my personal observation was the the folks coming from Upenn were really stuck up and competitive but thats their business, lol. by the way Case is an amazing school. consider applying to the Lerner College (med school for the cleveland clinic, run under authority of Case). Lerner college has free tuition if you get in...FREE. i wish i had known before applying...i would have applied to Lerner for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
token Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Regardless of the late application, if you didn't get any interviews from that list, there was something wrong with your personal statement/extracurriculars/secondary essays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 looks like youre applying to almost all tier 1 schools. i applied and inteviewed at a couple of these schools. heres a tip for jefferson...theire really big on training excellent clinicians. they dont care as much about getting superstar researchers as some of the other schools (ala Case, Yale, UPenn, Einstein etc). and my personal observation was the the folks coming from Upenn were really stuck up and competitive but thats their business, lol. by the way Case is an amazing school. consider applying to the Lerner College (med school for the cleveland clinic, run under authority of Case). Lerner college has free tuition if you get in...FREE. i wish i had known before applying...i would have applied to Lerner for sure. I hear that a lot of those are tier-1 but I truly based it on the AMCAS book based on which took a lot of international grads (the only exception being Maryland because I heard that they counted us as out-of-state). Not sure if Canadians are expected to have a higher MCAT than their averages but the only school that was a reach according to the book was Yale and maybe Columbia. I thought that AECOM/SUNY/Franklin/Maryland/Case/Wayne were all reasonable chances though. Who knows. Also, I didn't end up doing secondaries for Wayne or Franklin last year. Sorry for the confusion (I just copied and pasted off my app PDF)! Another question I have (I'd rather post here). On the AMCAS primary there exists a spot for "Contact Name and Title". What does that mean? Where do you put contact information?! I would just put like Dr. X X, Dean of X. Was that wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
token Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I hear that a lot of those are tier-1 but I truly based it on the AMCAS book based on which took a lot of international grads (the only exception being Maryland because I heard that they counted us as out-of-state). Not sure if Canadians are expected to have a higher MCAT than their averages but the only school that was a reach according to the book was Yale and maybe Columbia. I thought that AECOM/SUNY/Franklin/Maryland/Case/Wayne were all reasonable chances though. Who knows. Also, I didn't end up doing secondaries for Wayne or Franklin last year. Sorry for the confusion (I just copied and pasted off my app PDF)! Another question I have (I'd rather post here). On the AMCAS primary there exists a spot for "Contact Name and Title". What does that mean? Where do you put contact information?! I would just put like Dr. X X, Dean of X. Was that wrong? Ahh nevermind that makes more sense. Without those two schools the list was extremely top heavy...the only schools that weren't top/mid tier were public schools. Maryland may have given you OOS status, but I'm sure it's still really hard to get in as an OOS. Another thing is schools like AECOM, Boston U and Georgetown for whatever reason get an extraordinary high number of applications (like 10 000+). Those are the ones where a late application would have really hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Ahh nevermind that makes more sense. Without those two schools the list was extremely top heavy...the only schools that weren't top/mid tier were public schools. Maryland may have given you OOS status, but I'm sure it's still really hard to get in as an OOS. Another thing is schools like AECOM, Boston U and Georgetown for whatever reason get an extraordinary high number of applications (like 10 000+). Those are the ones where a late application would have really hurt. What are some non-top heavy schools? NYCOM is know is one that I missed. You say that AECOM/BU/Georgetown have a lot of apps, is applying late june for primary too late then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
token Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 What are some non-top heavy schools? NYCOM is know is one that I missed. You say that AECOM/BU/Georgetown have a lot of apps, is applying late june for primary too late then? Hrmm well one place to start is the accepted thread...obviously a very small sample, but you could look at where people with similar stats were accepted this year. I don't think late June is late, but remember when you submit your AMCAS isn't really relevant. What matters is when you're complete. If you submit AMCAS on the first day, but aren't complete until October, you'll be late. If you submit your AMCAS at the end of July, but manage to start getting completes before September, you'd be fine. But timing isn't everything...like some other posters I was definitely towards the later end of things and did fine. So if you didn't get any interviews you need to really take the time to evaluate your personal statement o make sure you're selling yourself well. If you need a few more weeks to work on it, don't stress. You'll just have to make sure you're on the ball with secondaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Instead of posting in the what are my chances thread, I'll do it here instead. Here's my overall story and I'd love some advice taking everything into consideration. Thanks so much for your help guys! I posted this on studentdoctor but they don't know too much about canadians. I made the huge mistake last year of ignoring all the forums and applying in late September (primary) and in October/November (secondary) and ended up getting no interviews whatsoever at about 8 or 9 universities. This time, I'm clearly starting a little earlier and just want to be sure that if I'm done before July 1st (primary), I won't be at a major disadvantage? It's just that I could finish this weekend but getting the transcript over to AMCAS might take a while as I just got back from a trip and could only print the form now. I'm really paranoid after the traumatic experience that was last year, lol. That said, I'm a Canadian with a 3.97 GPA and a 33R (10 P/11 V/12 . I graduated in April 2008 and have worked in a medical clinic since last june where I directly interact with patients on a daily basis and work closely with doctors. Another thing that I need advice on is my personal statement. I did apply extremely late last year and left out some easier ones like Rosalind and Wayne, but my PS last year was formatted in a way that had some semi-poetry-like stuff at the beginning and end and I thought it would make it stand out. But now, I'm thinking that an essay more straightforward with a list of strengths and why medicine etc might be better? As for schools this time, I'm thinking: Albert Einstein College of Medicine Boston University School of Medicine Case Western Reserve University School of Medicin Columbia University College of P & S Georgetown University School of Medicine Jefferson Medical Coll. of Thomas Jefferson Univ. Mount Sinai School of Medicine Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine UPenn Rosalind Franklin SUNY Upstate Medical University University of Maryland School of Medicine Vanderbilt University School of Medicine Wayne State University School of Medicine Yale University School of Medicine (as a pipe dream) Do you guys know of any I should add? I'm hoping to stay somewhat in the Northeast. Since I'm now looking at having 2 years off after university, I really don't want to have to apply again. Also, unfortunately, money is extremely tight at the moment so if any of those schools are a total waste of time, please let me know and I'll leave them out. If you took the time to read all of this, thanks so much. Please tell me that a primary submitted on July 1st is not a disadvantage for us international students (who only have a handful get in at each school)! If it is, I could drive to my university this monday and make sure that we get this stuff started sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
token Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Just about your list... UPenn does not take Canadians who didn't do their undergrad in the US. You might as well add Cornell and NYU since if you start getting interviews you can save on travel costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Just about your list... UPenn does not take Canadians who didn't do their undergrad in the US. You might as well add Cornell and NYU since if you start getting interviews you can save on travel costs. lol well that was a solid waste of $100 last year. they leave out this advice on SDN. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 ......I'm a Canadian with a 3.97 GPA and a 33R (10 P/11 V/12 ........I also volunteered for 4 months at a poetry workshop for children with disabilities and have some interesting one-time things like winning the school's poetry slam competition and volunteering at a juvenile diabetes camp weekend that I'm not sure whether to include (as they don't have much longevity). Any advice for that? Another thing that I need advice on is my personal statement.....I'm thinking that an essay more straightforward with a list of strengths and why medicine etc might be better? Since I'm now looking at having 2 years off after university, I really don't want to have to apply again. Also, unfortunately, money is extremely tight at the moment so if any of those schools are a total waste of time, please let me know and I'll leave them out....... Starting with the last above point first, you mention that money "is extremely tight". Well, your stats, it seems to me, look great for Canada where you can save a fortune in tuition. None of us "want to have to apply again", it is lottery and what will be, will be, if you need to apply next year, remember this is a marathon and not a sprint. Re your Essay, you should stay away from "a list of strengths". Essentially, your autobiographical stories should illustrate the positive attributes med schools are looking for w/o having to mention what these attributes are. As another poster mentioned in another thread, longevity is not a determinant as some compelling volunteering can and does take a short period of time and these should not be excluded to show completely who you are. Re money, I could not even consider applying to US for fear of acceptance - I would be unable to pay the tuition, etc. and so, I won't waste my time applying to US. Acceptance anywhere in Canada will lead to securing a LOC up to $150,000 at prime and, therefore, I will have a financial cushion to sustain me in med school to the extent required that I will be able to repay once I commence practice. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Starting with the last above point first, you mention that money "is extremely tight". Well, your stats, it seems to me, look great for Canada where you can save a fortune in tuition. None of us "want to have to apply again", it is lottery and what will be, will be, if you need to apply next year, remember this is a marathon and not a sprint. Money's tight at the moment, but I can foresee being able to get the finances in order to start and finish American Meds. I'm just so jaded after my first time applying to Canadian schools. Of all my close friends, only one whose passion was severely lacking (had no substantial reasons for choosing med, just thought it was something to do with a 4.0) has gotten in. Meanwhile, 5-6 highly qualified, passionate students just got the ole waitlist. Getting rejected by my alma mater after an interview went great just makes me want to go to the States and succeed and surpass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Money's tight at the moment, but I can foresee being able to get the finances in order to start and finish American Meds. I'm just so jaded after my first time applying to Canadian schools. Of all my close friends, only one whose passion was severely lacking (had no substantial reasons for choosing med, just thought it was something to do with a 4.0) has gotten in. Meanwhile, 5-6 highly qualified, passionate students just got the ole waitlist. Getting rejected by my alma mater after an interview went great just makes me want to go to the States and succeed and surpass. I understand where you are coming from and encourage you not to take this 'personally' despite the fact it is so personal. Just keep your options open in both Canada and US. To a degree, once we are qualified, acceptance or rejection is entirely random and staying power is required. I hope that you are also applying in the coming OMSAS cycle. I have a Plan B and am prepared for years of applying if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
token Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I understand where you are coming from and encourage you not to take this 'personally' despite the fact it is so personal. Just keep your options open in both Canada and US. To a degree, once we are qualified, acceptance or rejection is entirely random and staying power is required. I hope that you are also applying in the coming OMSAS cycle. I have a Plan B and am prepared for years of applying if required. The only issue I have with spending years applying is that those are years you're losing out on an attending's salary. Try 2 or 3 times sure, but once you get to 4+ that's a significant opportunity cost you're incurring which would probably ending up being more than the additional cost of just studying in the US immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 The only issue I have with spending years applying is that those are years you're losing out on an attending's salary. Try 2 or 3 times sure, but once you get to 4+ that's a significant opportunity cost you're incurring which would probably ending up being more than the additional cost of just studying in the US immediately. You make a valid point that I will definitely consider if necessary. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foregoneconclusion Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 no more advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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