CHM247H..and MCATs

[Guest Chowchilla]

just wondering...is chm247h supposed to help in your preparation for the mcat? can it be done without, or is it recommended?

 

also, does it matter if i do a science and a humanities double major?

 

thanks.

 

=chow=

[Guest UWOMED2005]

No clue on CHM247H. . . if that's either first year chemistry or 2nd year organic chemistry, then yes it will cover material on the MCAT. If it's another type of chemistry, then it probably WON'T be useful.

 

As to doing a double major in science and humanities. . . if you read some of the admissions material (ie Dal medicine calendar, for example, some of it suggests some med schools PREFER students who have a solid balance of arts and science courses. At the least, if you look at the prerequisistes for most med schools, they include both science credits (some variation of first year chem, first year bio, organic chem, maybe biochem, etc.) and humanities credits (varies from school to school.) On the other hand, myself I found taking a lot of arts and science credits could sometimes get confusing. . . the two disciplines emphasize very different styles of thinking and at times I found some of the styles of thinking I interacted with in each discipline contradicted each other.

 

So the questions you have to ask yourself are:

a) Would you prefer to do a double major than a major in a single subject?

Do you think you can handle a double major and still get the GPA to get into med school? (approx A-/A average. . . ie trying to get at least an 80% or 85% in as many courses as possible.)

[Guest JSS02]

You can definitely do fine on the MCATs without CHM247... it covers much more detail (both reactions and mechanisms) than you need to know for the MCAT. However, if you elect not to do CHM247, make sure that all the schools that you apply to don't require a full credit of orgo.

[Guest Chowchilla]

thank you for your replies =)

 

but, isn't it supposedly easier to do a double major rather than a specialist degree?

 

from past experiences though...at uoft in general, what would be the best route?

[Guest UWOMED2005]

Yeah, I did a "Combined Honours" degree in Biochem & Microbiology/immunology. Besides an interest in microbiology & immunology, another selling point for going this route was it meant that I didn't have to take a few of the prereqs for straight honours in Biochem (particularly some of the prereqs I hated). Wouldn't be surprised if the same was true for U of T, though a U of T grad like JSS02 could confirm that. You'd probably also be able to answer that question by consulting the U of T calendar, or getting confirmation from the department itself.

[Guest Chowchilla]

wow, i didn't know you could do a combined specialist degree...

 

but what i meant was, would it be advisable to do a major in say, biology, and history?

 

or another combination like that.

[Guest UWOMED2005]

At Dalhousie, I think what U of T calls specialist degrees are called "honours" degrees. And yeah, at Dal you could do combined honours degrees. . . you could even do "multidisciplinary honours" degrees where you combined > 2 subjects into an honours degree. I'm not sure if the same is true of U of T, though.

 

And you can totally get into medicine without the honours/specialist designation. There are numerous of people in my at Western who did not do honours degrees. But if specialist degrees are setup the same way honours degrees were at Dal, there is a definite advantage to doing the honours/specialist program - at Dal at least, an Honours project meant you did an honours thesis, giving you research experience. You might even have the chance of getting a paper or two published - which you'll realize once you're in medical school and too busy to do research anymore, is a huge plus.

[Guest JSS02]

Depends on what you mean by "advisable," I guess... you certainly won't be underprepared for med school by doubling in bio / history. The admissions people certainly won't look down on you because you have a major in history- in fact, it'll probably be something that makes you stand out a bit. If you're really into history, keep in mind that this will be your last chance to take this sort of course for a while (once you're in med school, you won't have the time to take an elective like that). So maybe it's worth taking advantage of it while you still can, especially if you don't think your marks will be negatively affected.

[Guest Chowchilla]

thanks again =)

 

well, originally i wanted to do a specialist degree if i ever wanted to go on to grad school, but now ... i'd rather do something that i enjoy as well.

 

plus i feel that i'll be better able to cope with a double major program rather than a specialist ...

 

oh, one more question (i'm just full of them)

 

some med schools require that you have a full year of biochemistry, english, physics ... etc. supposing that you take a half year course in biochem instead of a full, or don't take an english course at all ... does it just affect your application negatively, or do they not even consider it?

 

thanks =)

[Guest JSS02]

Usually, they're called "requirements" for a reason... if you haven't completed the required courses by May of the school year that you apply (e.g. May 2003 for those that sent in their applications this past October) then you'll likely be disqualified. However, if you talk to each of the schools in question, maybe (but I seriously doubt it) they'd make an exception for you if you have a valid reason.

 

Western is a little different in that they'll let you finish your pre-reqs in the summer once you've already been accepted. Your spot would be conditional on you completing those remaining courses during that summer. I don't think this is the case for most schools, though.

[Guest aneliz]

Western's pre-reqs MUST be completed before you will be allowed to register....if you haven't completed all of the pre-reqs by the time that you are offered admission, your offer will be conditional on you having completed your outstanding pre-reqs before registration. This allows you to do them that summer....but....come september, no pre-reqs = no registration - regardless of whether you got an acceptance. For example, a grad student that hasn't completed their masters yet would get an acceptance conditional on finishing their MSc degree. If they can't get it done before Sept, they can't register in the MD program...they have to give up their spot and reapply....

 

Moral of the story: if you don't have all the pre-reqs yet, don't worry - apply anyway. If you can't get all of the pre-reqs done before Sept, don't apply, because even if you are accepted, you won't be allowed to come!

 

One further point, pre-reqs are there for a reason, not just to make your life miserable....the stuff that you learn in these pre-reqs IS relevant to your success at med school.....my classmates that are weak in one of the pre-req areas are hurting (ultra-stressed) come exam times. The schools set pre-reqs so that they know that the entering class has at least a base knowledge in these areas and med I classes are taught assuming that you know the basics.

 

Good luck!

[Guest UWOMED2005]

A bit off-topic, but I don't think ANY school requires a full year in biochem. McGill requires a half year, but that's the exception rather than the rule. . . unless you don't have 1st year bio and are planning on using biochem as your unspecific "biological science" credit.

[Guest aneliz]

I think that you can use a full year of biochem at Ottawa in place of taking any organic...at least that is the way it was last year. You also can use a half credit of biochem at western now and only take a half credit in organic....yipee for that....I only wish that it had applied to my application!

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi guys,

 

I believe that UBC still requires a full credit of Biochem, along with the regular band of Organic Chemistry, English, General Chemistry, etc.

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest Chowchilla]

you guys are awesome. thanks again!

 

ottawa requires 'a full year in two of biochemistry, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and general biology or zoology, and a humanities course is also required'.

 

ubc ... 'full courses in: english, biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, biochemistry'

 

okay, so if i take biochemistry (BCH242Y) this coming summer instead of during the regular school year, obviously med schools aren't going to count the mark that i get in that course.

 

however, it does count towards the pre-req, correct?

 

also...do med schools 'look down upon' your application if you complete a pre-req during the summer?

 

thanks again =)

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there Chowchilla,

 

Yes, I believe that most schools will count a pre-requisite credit if you took it during the summer, and I don't believe that there is any negative bias involved if you do so. (I took my organic chemistry credit a couple of summers ago and I haven't heard any negative repercussions coming my way due to it. Mind you, I ain't yet in medical school...!)

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest pp15]

hey chowchilla,

 

just to let u know, I wrote my mcat's this summer, with only chm138 under my belt....while i did fine on the bioscience section, the summer would have been less stressful had i taken chm247....

 

i would say about 50% of the orgo u need to know is not covered in chm138 (unless they've changed the curriculum of 138 since i took it)

 

keep in mind that the orgo component of the MCAT will be reduced for april 03

 

good luck

[Guest faqir9]

yo anneliz, goodness gracious, "there for a reason"?!!!!! When was the last time you used kirchoff's second rule in med school?

[Guest aneliz]

You would be surprised at the amount of physics that has been taught (and not so well most of the time) in med I at UWO. In the last three weeks we have had at least 4 hours of lecture time from a biophysicist who has been trying (largely unsuccessfully due to the limited physics knowledge of the class) to teach force, torque, tensile strength and shear forces to us (in terms of bone, muscle, tendons and joints). In physiology we have also been haunted by physics. Many of my classmates are struggling with pressure, flow, resistance, fluid dynamics (turbulent flow), parallel and series circuits, the Fick principle, electrical resistance and capacitance, the Nernst equation, etc. (Taught in terms of neural function and cardiovascular physiology). And this week we were tortured by vector analysis while learning the basics of EKG's....so there you have it....given the speed that these things are taught, you better hope that you have some background knowledge. We learned EKG's in two hours, if you didn't have a working knowledge of vectors and what they mean/what you do with them, the lecture might as well have been in hebrew....and for those without a solid physics background this is often the case....these people have spent many of their limited out of class hours trying to learn basic physics concepts so that they can understand the applied physics that was presented at light speed in class....

[Guest dogeatdog12]

you can't take that course in the summer, but you can take BCH210, it's a good course too! However, it does limit your options in terms of programs you can apply to in your undergraduate career.

[Guest Chowchilla]

summer courses might not be such a big thing with some canadian schools, but my still marks will still count if i apply to the u.s...oh well.