lostintime Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 What is generally more acknowledged as one's research capabilities~ 3rd or further author on a publication (with a BUNCH of names on the author list) vs. first-author on a poster/abstract for a conference (not one of those summer research things within the university, but say a national conference)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shouldieventry Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 I would have to say 1st author on a poster/abstract, especially if its at an international conference. It shows you are able to put together/present your results and shows more involvement, whereas your name on paper might just mean you did some bench work for the project. Of course that is just my humble opinion... I guess it depends on who is judging your research capabilities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estairella Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 What is generally more acknowledged as one's research capabilities~ 3rd or further author on a publication (with a BUNCH of names on the author list) vs. first-author on a poster/abstract for a conference (not one of those summer research things within the university, but say a national conference)? It will depend on what you actually did for the publication. If you were third author but you can't explain it at all to anyone who asks, obviously, that looks bad. But if you were third author because the PI is first author (obviously), and a post-doc is second author because he/she needs it... even though you did 50% of the actual work and wrote 90% of the manuscript... then I would say that 3rd author thing is still pretty respectable. In contrast, being first author of an abstract means you are a good enough researcher for a conference... which obviously has lower standards than a publication (in general). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveSense Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Paper, but like estairella said, make sure you can explain ALL of the paper and why it is important. Abstracts are great but I could whip one up having barely any data in it at all but a paper that has gone through peer review will be viewed as substantial work and if you contributed to it in a meaningful way, shows that you are able to generate quality science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 A paper is peer-reviewed. An abstract/poster is not. Lots of people present posters that contain data that will never be published in a peer review paper. Anyway, I don`t think you should have to choose between these, however. If you present and are first author on the poster, then why wouldn`t your name be on the paper as well? If you are short for space on your CV, then I would put the paper and leave out the abstract/poster. That is what I generally do. Or I add a little line under the reference stating - data was presented at such and such a conference, city, date. It is still good to have some conference presentations showing up on your CVs though I think because it shows communication/presentation skills that are important. But a published paper is definitely stronger than an abstact/poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA Doc Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 They are probably similar in weight to be honest. I don't think you need to worry too much about it. It all should go on your CV. But be prepared to describe your role in the project clearly if asked! Your author position on a paper is important. First author has done the majority of the work. The PI is traditionally the LAST author. If you wrote the manuscript you should be first author... or second at a minimum if you co-authored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 Thanks for the feedback guys! My issue is more that I do NOT have any publications but do have an abstract (first author) for a national conference, and some random summer studentship departmental things (I know those count for almost nothing). I wonder if I should try to put a lot of effort into trying to get a publication because the way things are going, the first/second author thing just isn't going to happen. But I guess I just wonder if it's even worth all the trouble going that extra mile to try to get a 4th or 5th authorship if it won't be valued that much when I can allocate my time better doing other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrogirl Posted January 13, 2010 Report Share Posted January 13, 2010 If you're an undergrad, then I think what you already have should look pretty good and you can spend your time on other things. If you're a grad student, then it would probably be worth trying to get your name on a paper, just because some school seem to expect more research from grad students. But otherwise don't worry about it! More is always better, of course, but not at the expense of your grades and other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 If you are asking for the purposes of applying to med school....I doubt a publication will make or break you. Plenty of students get into med school without publications. The fact that you have done research and presented a poster is enough to show interest and some skill and that is pretty much all med schools will care about. So I wouldn`t worry too much. Like someone mentionned previously though, if you are applying via a grad stream, then publications become more important. Applying straight from undergrad...is icing on the cake imo. Great if you have one, but isn`t going to keep you from getting in if you don`t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 What about applying for CARMS as a medical student? I know that electives are the most important and whether the team can you see fitting in with them, but I guess perhaps publications can make/break a deal when all else is equal? Most people say that clinical clerks aren't that different from each other unless they're really brilliant or really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 I doubt publications would make or break a CaRMS application. They may have more weight if you are applying for a research-oriented residency program such as the Clinician Investigator Program. I think personal factors and references play a larger role.. a given group of students may not contain any outliers, but they are all unique individuals with different personalities and aptitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA Doc Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 If you really want to have a first author paper, it might not be as difficult as you think. Pick a supervisor you get along with well, and tell them you don't have any experience writing journal articles, and would like to write up a case report for them. It doesn't have to be a lot of work. Often they have case reports they've been meaning to write up but haven't had the time. It's a win-win situation. They get a paper out, you get not only the first author paper you wanted, but a valuable learning experience. Don't do it at the expense of other things you need to do for success, but I think it's a worthwhile venture if you think you want an academic career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 What about applying for CARMS as a medical student? I know that electives are the most important and whether the team can you see fitting in with them, but I guess perhaps publications can make/break a deal when all else is equal? Most people say that clinical clerks aren't that different from each other unless they're really brilliant or really bad. Carms is an entirely different beast. And if you are not yet in med school....I wouldn`t worry about Carms yet. But the answer to whether a publication will matter for carms is...it depends. Some specialties are very research oriented and some programs are more research oriented than others. You likely don`t know what specialty you will apply to...and if you know now, you may change your mind. So the research you do now may not directly apply to your specialty of choice. Keep in mind, you can also do research during your med school years, if you so choose. And people get into all kinds of programs without publications. But if you do get a publication now, then you have that under your belt. In short - if you don`t get a publication before med school - it is not going to prevent you from getting into your specialty/program of choice. The thing is, if you did the work and deserve to be an author on this publication, then you should be on it. If you didn`t then you won`t be - regardless of how you think it will look on your med school or carms apps. Whether you are or aren`t an author on this paper should be independent of your applications, is what I am trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveSense Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 If you really want to have a first author paper, it might not be as difficult as you think. Pick a supervisor you get along with well, and tell them you don't have any experience writing journal articles, and would like to write up a case report for them. It doesn't have to be a lot of work. Often they have case reports they've been meaning to write up but haven't had the time. It's a win-win situation. They get a paper out, you get not only the first author paper you wanted, but a valuable learning experience. Don't do it at the expense of other things you need to do for success, but I think it's a worthwhile venture if you think you want an academic career. A case report is a whole different beast than a research article and probably (just my thoughts) doesn't carry nearly as much weight. just imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA Doc Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 A case report is a whole different beast than a research article and probably (just my thoughts) doesn't carry nearly as much weight. just imo Oh... it definitely is... but a pre-med or med student might not have the time to do a full-on research project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted January 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 I guess it's not like a all-or-nothing phenomenon with publications then. For example, if you get a first-author in a decent journal, then it's like big props to you + bonus points whereas if you get a 4th or 5th author in some unknown journal, it'll almost be disregarded. But with case reports, wouldn't residents and clerks have first dibs over you (if you're in year 1 or 2)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Not necessarily. You would have more free time than them, for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA Doc Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 But with case reports, wouldn't residents and clerks have first dibs over you (if you're in year 1 or 2)? They would if more than one person was interested in writing up the case. But in reality, there are usually more potential case reports to write up than minions to do the dirty work! You just have to ask around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.