Guest sleepwalker Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 hi, I'm a new to this forum, but desperately need any suggestions/help. I am choosing between UWO and McGill. McGill was my first choice, went to McGill for my undergrad, it's close to home, amazing school, reputation, and program, but Western offered me a $20 000 x4 scholarship... How do I choose?! Sorry for this longwinded post, but ANY suggestions is greatly greatly greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncestvrai Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Well, I would take the money and run, seriously, even if McGill is a very good school, you'll still be a MD in four years... noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1984MD Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Hey, both are AMAZING schools and you'll have a great experience at either one. If you are getting the 20,000/year, I would take Western. This would pay for your tuition and part of living expenses. You wouldn't have to worry about going into a lot of debt. Originally, I had wanted to go to Western because their clinical teaching is amazing (clerks are first call and generally have a lot more responsibility for their patients than clerks at other schools in canada). also, they have more problem based learning than mcgill and you would get to experience a totally different environment/city. McGill is also an amazing school (I realy do love McGill and Montreal and had an awesome time here for my undergrad) but I think it would have been nice to experience another city for med school (although I didnt have much of a choice since I didnt get interviews at many other schools). If you didn't have the scholarship, I'd say take McGill because it is a great school and tuition is cheap, but the 20,000 solves that problem for you. anyways, let us know what you decide and maybe I'll be seeing you on August 15th if you pick McGill. btw, what did you do your major in while at McGill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1984MD Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 maybe people on the Western board can give you more insight into their school. I think that one advantage of western is that I believe they have a smalller school, therefore you can get more small group learning and a better clinical teaching experience. like noncestvrai said, take the money and run. you can meet new people and spend time in another city. you can always come back to mcgill for residency or clerkships! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gavanshir Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 What did you do to deserve 20K/yr? :b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sleepwalker Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Thank you SO much 1984MD! i know that for Western, finishing rotation before CaRMS and first call as a clerk are two huge pluses... are these also the case for mcgill? also, what's the max/avg scholarship that a student may get going into mcgill? Your help is greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1984MD Posted June 16, 2006 Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Hey, clerks at mcgill are not first call, unless things change in the next few years. I'm not sure of all the clerkship details since I'm just an incoming med I but i have quite a few friends in med 2,3 and 4 and i hear a lot about their experiences. i do know that scholarships at mcgill are EXTREMELY limited and most of the incoming scholarships are only awarded based on financial need. you would have ha to apply for financial assistance and then you might qualify for some scholarships. there are in course awards from what I have heard after each unit where some award money is given to students who do the best in each unit. in general, quebec med schools don't have much money to give away in scholarships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest garp Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Hi, While I can't comment on the details of clerkship, I can say that although scholarships are hard to come by at McGill I have no reason to complain whatsoever...Tuition at McGill for in-province students is $20,000 for ALL 4 years COMBINED (no, that isn't a typo)--less than one year would have cost me at UofT...in addition, Quebec financial aid is phenomenal in that unless you have a large number of assets, most students get $14, 000 in aid with $8, 500 of that being a bursary (i.e., free money) per year... This isn't directed towards any of the posters above, but it always gets me when people complain about finances at Quebec medical schools...I contemplated going to the states but that would have set me back $300, 000 in loans...to be able to choose a residency and future career based on interest and not what will allow me to get out of debt quickest (i.e., what many are faced with in the states) is a godsend.... -garp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncestvrai Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 That wonderful Quebec government stopped giving me money because I used the loans and bursaries in undergrad, and that kicked me out of their eligibility criteria...MD IS an undergraduate degree... If I knew that before, I would not have used it in undergrad, since I only got 3K or so a semester since I was a "dependent", where now I could have something like 14K...due to the amount of credits. I don't come from a rich family, so even in undergrad I had to use some form of financial aid. However, McGill has a couple of bursaries for the needy, like me. I got 6K this year, hopefully the same in the next few years. The best approach would have been no financial aid in undergrad, complete undergrad, and after 90 credits you become "independent", then get some serious money for med, now I live in the smallest room in my parents' small 5 1/2 with jack$hit...no car, no money, no girls...because of this "technical detail". I'm still happy though, but if I was in a situation where I would become familiar with a new system AND get a prestigious scholarship...I would have taken that opportunity for sure. By the way, you WILL be on-call at McGill with resposibilities, I heard from a R1 that if you're at St-Mary's internal med, you practically cover the whole hospital as a med III along with the ICU resident... I don't think you do more at Western, clinically speaking...but I haven't been to Western. If I did not have the scholarship, I would go to McGill for obvious reasons. noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sleepwalker Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Thank you so much garp and noncestvrai! noncestvrai, in your case, u got 6K... that got me thinking, i believe that tuition for OOP kids is somewhere around 8000, so if i'm able to get around 6K assistance, then mcgill is highly appealing. I'm an Ontario resident,went to McGill for undergrad, got some bursaries here and there as well as financial assistance. so i'm out of their eligibility criteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trustwomen Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 I'm not a fan of the Quebec loans system. I've worked full-time (or nearly) throughout undergrad and as a consequence they have given me very, very little. Got just over 4K last year (the first year I had to take out loans) and, of that, 48$ - yes, 48$ - was a bursary. I did the math for next year. I will get just under 5K, all in loans. Even if I quit my job now and applied with only 12K income (i.e. this year so far), I'd get an extra 2K in bursary but total aid would be 7K. That would not be enough to cover my year of living expenses PLUS tuition - in any way, shape or form. Once your gross income reaches 16.5K you get no bursaries at all for first year med. But if I earned nothing, I'd get over 8K in bursaries, tax-free. How's that for a disincentive to pay your own way! I'm basically working for half salary, since every two dollars I don't earn (under 16.5K) gives me a free buck from the government. But I'm not bitter... >: EDIT: I realize I'm probably insane to work full-time while in full-time undergrad, and to be planning to keep working during the first 2 years of med school. The problem is the way they calculate income. If they asked me my "expected income" from September to August, I could say 0, if I planned to quit my job. But because they ask for January to January, I'm "stuck" every year, by my winter/spring earnings killing any chance of being able to get a bursary that fall anyway... so I might as well keep working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest garp Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 TW, I definitely understand the dilemma, but at least compared to Ontario, Quebec students are very lucky as bursaries are not easy to come by in other provinces...I guess as I mentioned in a prior post, my perspective is perhaps a little bit different for if I went to the states as was a distinct possibility, my parents would have had to take out a second mortgage on their home to even guarantee finances for my education...Without loans and bursaries, to be able to graduate medical school with under $20, 000 in debt from tuition (compared to over $80, 000 at UofT) is definitely something I am grateful for.... -garp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncestvrai Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Wait, there is no way to predict how much you can get from McGill, in my first year of medschool I got 3K only, only this year I got 6K, so there is really no guarantee for the amount you will get. They look at how much you make vs how much life costs, help you out if you need anything. This year, I was not eligible for Quebec Loans and Bursaries, so they took that into account, in fact, McGill Financial Aid gave me more in bursary than the Quebec gov ever did... TrusWo I'm not a fan of the Loans and Bursaries Programme neither...if you work more you get less, I was receiving money from my MSc (the Jan-Jan thing), so I got the shaft in first year med as well... It's ok, I love to live in Quebec, especially in the Mtl area, but I might be seduced by Alberta, BC, or even Ontario when residency comes... Bottom line of McGill med: education is cheap, you get excellent training, life in Mtl is great, your degree is known around the world, the Qc gov screws you (i.e. the price to pay for a cheap education) when in res and when in practice. noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trustwomen Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 I shouldn't complain too much. It's still better than any other province, and stratospherically better than in the States. (You're right, garp.) And the tuition cost... well, ya gotta love that. Every American doctor and med student I know is green with envy (or nausea, thinking about their debt?) when they hear about it. My new plan is to quit working after BOM, so the following year I can say "0" on my income statement... one thing I am glad of is that they won't take my SO's income into account because we aren't married nor do we have children. So I'm still considered "single" for AFE purposes, even though I'm "common-law" everywhere else (was useful for mortgage and insurance, for instance). Of course, with my luck they'll probably close that loophole just in time for 2008-09... That's what RBC is for, right? :( p.s. hoomsy, did you get my email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest garp Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 TW, Sounds like a good plan to me :-) One word of advice though: if possible, make sure that you have no assets in your name (cars, homes etc etc)...I almost ran into problems with that in Ontario in that they include investments as income and so a small investment in my name (made by my dad) would have precluded me from getting money from the Ontario government... Good for you for working during BOM--albeit a tough feat, it will definitely provide you with some much needed distractions as it's very easy to consume yourself with everything med-related in the very beginning... getting excited yet??? :-p -garp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trustwomen Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 Ah, sh!t, I just bought a home. It's in both our names and I'm just too much of a control freak to have it otherwise... Guess I'll return to plan A: work through BOM and ICM (I've been told there are no nights and weekends in ICM, and that is when I work), then quit for clerkship. Then RBC it the rest of the way... (Of course, if I find that I'm getting overwhelmed or my studies are suffering, I'll quit my job in a heartbeat. Debt is acceptable - not becoming a doctor isn't.) I've been excited for months!!! I'll admit that I'm focusing on other things at the moment - buying a car, renovating, moving (in 10 days - eep!), and settling in. Once I got the vaccine stuff finished & got my degree, I figured there is no way McGill can rescind me now, so I relaxed about the whole thing. How about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McFlown Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 I bet it's a relief for anyone to not have to worry about looking at your student loans/finances year after year of med. Even though education is relatively cheap in Canada (moreso in Montreal), a lot of us still worry. The only way I would consider McGill is if the Montreal/McGill environment really suits you and makes you happy. And if your finances are not too big a concern. Regarding the schools themselves, I believe they are both considered excellent programs. - McFlown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest medicator007 Posted June 18, 2006 Report Share Posted June 18, 2006 I agree with McFlown... You will get a great medical education at both of these fine schools. There are some curriculum differences, with a bit earlier clinical exposure at UWO, while we tend to go into hospitals later than everyone else. But as for actual clinical experience, you are almost always first call during clerkship here and in comparing with some friends who went to UWO we all feel just as prepared for the start of residency. So what it comes down to are, finances (no way to avoid that!) and really where you are comfortable. The city, the students, and what your life will be like outside of medicine at whatever school you are at... YES there is a life outside of med. Hope that helps and feel free to post other questions as they should arise. Good Luck, Medicator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1984MD Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Hey, Have you made any decisions about which school? Hopefully we will meet on August 15th. I'm really excited about starting but the one thing I'm nervous about is meeting new people since most of the new students have done their undergrads in the same program and already know eachother and are good freinds with eachother. Is this the case with previous years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dr Loves to Laugh Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Hey 1984MD, I don't know anyone at McGill either. One person from my undergrad classes is going but I don't KNOW them. She doesn't know anyone either. We're both coming from Ottawa. And I met one girl on the internet (she posted an add in the McGill classifieds for someone to search for an apartment with) who is coming from the US and doesn't know anybody either. So I don't think you will be the only one in this boat. I do think that those coming from Med-P will know each other and then some others that went to McGill but I am sure it won't be like high school or anything. I really wouldn't worry about meeting people because we are all friendly and stuff. Otherwise we wouldn't have been accepted right? So sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. Meeting people will happen naturally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trustwomen Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Besides, on one of the other threads we discussed meeting up with other incoming posters for coffee or lunch, a few weeks before classes start. I liked the idea and so did many others. Yet another way to break the nervousness and isolation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noncestvrai Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Oh Dr. Love, it IS like highschool...or quickly becomes like it is... Try seeing the same people every day for at least a year and a half... My advice would be to see your friends OUTSIDE of medschool during the summer. noncestvrai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sleepwalker Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 thank you so much McFlown and Medicator007. I agree, since both schools offer amazing programs, what it comes down to are the student body and the city. Having lived in Montreal for 3 yrs for undergrad, i LOVE the city. What are Mcgill med students like tho? more laid back or...er, otherwise. I've heard horror stories about the competitiveness of medP students... but i'm not quite sure personally. Also, should i also consider CaRMS's stats on matching successes? Thanks a bunch again for your posts!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest medicator007 Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 Sleep... There will always be someone to compete with if that is what interests you... this can be said at every school. I am likely one of the most uncompetitive, laid back people and I did more than fine in medicine at McGill. It isn't so much that the MedPs are competitive, its just well... that they have an interesting and uber keen way of approaching their studies until they embrace the beauty of the pass/fail system... which they almost all inevitably do. So really, I found my class to be quite chill, great environment, great people, great times... but honestly, i think most medical schools will have a potpourri of people and there will be special ones in any bunch and McGill is NO exception... overall trend though: relaxed. The CaRMS stats are completely meaningless for matching success and in NO way reflect ANYTHING about ANY medical school. It is far too complex to read anything into it as it is wholly dependedent on what people from that school apply to, how competitive each INDIVIDUAL applicant is and other factors as well... for eg. you will see many McGill students unmatched after the first round, but many of those were americans who only applied to McGill and were esentially banking on a spot in the NRMP etc.... bottom line: Ignore CaRMS stats when chosing a med school. Good Luck, Medicator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest med2006McGill Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Sleep.. I agree with everything medicator007 said. I went to U of T for undergrad, and just graduated from McGill med. In general, I found people in TO way more competitive than people in Montreal. There are always competitive people in every class, but in general people in my class were pretty chill. I wouldn't worry about the rumors you've heard about premeds. Actually, scholarships in McGill are not that hard to come by (but usu. not as much as 20K/yr). You can get $1500/yr if you're top 5% of the class. For every unit, the student with the highest mark also gets $$. For all of my rotations, I was first call!! Having spoken to many med students and having done electives at different schools, I have to say that McGill is probably one of the schools that offers you the most hands-on experience and responsibility as a med student. That's why McGill students usu. shine when they do electives elsewhere, be it the rest of Canada or even ivy league schools in the states. You should certainly also take location into consideration! Are you a big city person? If so, London might not be for you. Don't get me wrong, but London is a nice, cozy city. You can reach any place in the city in 20 min by car. Since I went to McGill, I'm probably biased. You should certainly talk to as many people as you can! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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